Edit: I am talking about for Vocals ONLY mic pre
 
OK- I have very good mic Studio Projects C-1-as I always prefe=ace it is one of the 1st 100 made-supposedly top notch back then. 
Anyway-as far as mic pres I have the Mackie vlz3 - which I have read are very similar to the Ecxho Layla3G mic pres. Which I also have. And finally I have the Octa capture 8 mic pres.
 
Being a player formost I don't hear much difference between vocals recorded using each of the mic pres mentioned.
 
I could spend from $300 to $500 about for one ext mic pre.
 
Would I be just side grading or is there something in that range that will make a difference I can hear? I tried redeaching google but just coud not get a definitive answer-maybe there isn't one.
 
Or is just a better mic the option?
Thanks again
 
Thanks

In the $300 - $500 range, maybe.
$500 - $1000 range, yes.
$1000 + range, oh hells yeah.

I know that there are some very nice single channel pre's in the $500-$700 area like the ISA One, the Twin-Finity 710, the Grace M101 and the True Systems P-Solo.

Anything cheaper than that will pretty much be a lateral move. IMO anyway.

There may be some $300-ish pre's that'll add some color but they would be few.

Mike

Lots of nice mic's in the $300-$500 range.
If you have clean pre's (as you do) you're $$ might be better off spent on a nice new mic.

Mike

I agree with Mike. 

Reading various forums over the years and from my own experience, it seems you have to spend $500+ per channel to really hear much of a difference. Even then, none of us can really tell you if a new, expensive mic pre is going to make much difference in your project. Only you can judge that and the only way you'll be able to tell is to try them out. I know that's not always possible, but that's what it boils down to.

In my experience, save your money until you can afford something really good. Otherwise, you're just moving sideways.

 

Unless there is a good reason to look for another pre amp lower noise for example I think you are going to find not much difference. And that is the way it should be.

If you want "coloration" which is distortion a tube pre amp may be an interesting try. You don't need to spend a lot to see.  

well, you might consider a valve pre if your mic is pretty clean. but it depends on what sound youre after.
 
I use a valve mic for vox (AKG solid tube with a telefunken tube) so I purchased a BAE DMP which is solid state. my first choice was a UA 610 Solo, but valve+valve might be a little too much.  the reason I got the DMP over the Daking was because it had a pre and post gain and I wanted to be able to drive the pre a little bit for some saturation.  but this all in service of music that *I make*.  I don't know what kind of music you make or what kind of vocalists you like or aspire to sound like.  and you may find that the part of the chain that will help you get the sound that youre after might not necessitate a fancy mic pre; it might be a delay or a nice reverb plugin or compressor.
 
care to fill us on what your sound is?
EDIT: what Joel77said is right: save up and really buy a nice pre. my DMP was my first ever outboard pre. i'd been using a motu 896 since I started with DAWs back in 2001. for a while I looked at the ISA One, but there are loads of them on ebay at deep discount which tells me that a lot of people upgrade. The Daking and the 610 were harder to find used and when I did find them, they didn't have much of a discount, which tells me they have a better reputation than other "low-end" pres.
 
but even then, I might still say that the pre might not be the most important component of "your vocal sound." to be honest, I don't even know if the DMP was the best purchase for me. it sounds great, but I don't think that the quality of my music has shot through the roof. but I do know that I can still get a fair price back for the DMP. if I'd bought an ISA One, i'd get taken to the cleaners on the used market.

 I've been messing with recording since I had a Teac 2340 when I was 18 as a hobby and semi professionally. I'm now 55.
   I love music and recording it. I always thought that I lacked that "golden ear" thing and to an extent, I probably do. 
   But it always gives me some relief to read an article like the mic pre comparison in the October Sound on Sound mag. In a blind test, industry professionals chose a $200 Art mic pre over other more expensive pres. 
   I believe that there's a lot of placebo effect in our hobby/business. "It has to be expensive to be good. 
   If the pres you have sound good to you, then they are good.

Thanks very much guys-great info. The mic pres I use (up to this point) are the Mackie vz3. They sound good to me. I tried the Octacapture after I posted. The signal is much hotter (visually) wave form and peak flags, etc.  without being louder.
The difference I hear with my old ears seems like:
 
The Roland MP's have more, well, body is the best term I can think of. The orig (mackievlz3's) sound tinnier (thinner). You guys are sure right , it is tough, especially for someone like me. I immediately liked the sound of the Roalnd vocal recording -same vocal track , etc) immediately but the Layla3g gives the whole mix more body whare as the roland total mix is like the mic pres test only revevesed. Sorry for the rambling.
 
I cannot raise the input signal anymore on the mackie pre to record vocals, so I guess the difference is headroom-Is that correct?
 
Tons of room on the Roland. Guess by all rights I need to do the same test with the Echo Layla3G mic pres (even though I read they are same as the mackie pres)
 
I really appreciate the feedback-you guys are great.
 
I agree with all points and will not buy a mic pre. After much experimenting I may look at mics-but I guess I have much testing to do now
 
regards
Stratman

joeb1cannoli


... like the mic pre comparison in the October Sound on Sound mag. In a blind test, industry professionals chose a $200 Art mic pre over other more expensive pres. 
 I believe that there's a lot of placebo effect in our hobby/business. "It has to be expensive to be good. 
 If the pres you have sound good to you, then they are good.

When I read the OP, I was reminded of this shoot-out. Your point is well taken and I'm glad you brought it to our attention. Really points out the frailty and hubris of human perception and how important it is to be aware of how the human psyche taints the mind with preconceptions when making judgements.

Tried a fw more things. The Roland Octa pres definitely give me much more , well, headroom I guess. I am a pro guitar player but a home studio guy with this stuff for many moons so my nomanclture is certainly suspect :-)
 
I tried everything to get the same ampount of input out of the mackie pre, impossible-just clipped and went nuts.
So...........I have an idea but have to figure out the routing.
 
Since I have the Roland octa capture collecting dust (untill I need it to play a function or something, that's why I bought it) why not use it solely as a mic pre for my vocals. The Layla 3G would still be my soundcard but the Roalnd would would be my mic pre.
 
I have an idea about routing but it's getting too late for today.
 
BTW, I was very happy to see the consensus is if it's good it's good. Makes it easier to try other things without getting frustrated.
 
when I get all this sorted out I would like to post a short clip of something I wrote a long time ago with the vocals recorded both ways. Just for feedback
 
Thanks again Guys
Stratman