I'm in NY on business, so I'm not sitting behing my DAW...but does n't right clicking and picking pre or post put the entire PC in that mode, not just the Concrete Limiter.  I believe that is a Pro Channel choice you make when you select pre or post.

Do you have the limiter as the last effect in the chain? Are you using it in the ProChannel or in the Fx bin?

Keni


I don't understand what I'm doing wrong here...
 
Using the Concrete Limiter I'm trying to reduce a few select peaks that have been yielding -0.6 or -0.3 in the final mix while the average peaks for the piece are at near -1.2
 
So I would think that if I set my threshold at -0.9 and my ceiling at -0.3 my end result should have nothing above 0.3?
 
So why do I get overs? I have the limiter inserted in the master's PC as the only working item and I've verified that everything is routed to the master... and though I'm seeing input and output on the Concrete, I don't see any gain reduction...
 
I would expect to get -0.3 peaks???
 
Thanks...
Keni
 

In the absence of any official documentation about the attack time or the attack slope... and with the experience you are having in mind... it is time to turn down the threshold.

Do you know of any limiters that can clamp down a signal where the threshold is only 0.6dB lower than the intended absolute, highest level peak? 

I don't.




I've seen some hard limit processes that make squared waves on purpose... but that's another story. 


best regards,
mike

Hi Danny...

Nothing to be sorry about... I'm very pleased that you've given me of your time and experience to try helping me. It's only thru conversation that we get to know about each other and what level of assistance is needed...

Your ideas are all excellent and in line with my usual work... I rarely do this, but it seemed a simple matter (from my experience) to quickly solve in the manner I tried. I've done this in analog,,,

You're absolutely right that the CC is not the right tool for the job... I can't find another that I own that is any better suited. I used to have the Timeworks compressor which has separate input and threshold setting which allowed me to do this kind of thing tho it's brickwall never seemed to catch everything even with a fast attack setting... I'd try it but it's no longer available on this new machine...

Last night I suddenly started experiencing a new and weird problem (which I'll be posting separately) and it made this a not-needed-till-later issue which I will likely approach from one of the other methods...

But I still don't understand why a brickwall limiter's ceiling isn't strictly enforced...?

Much thanks again...

Just in the spirit of getting to know each other... I'm a professional engineer from back in the days of analog tape... I've been a studio designer/builder/owner/operator for most of my life in one capacity or more... Lots of credits... No money! ;-)

As a performing musician prior to getting into engineering, I'm a Berklee alumni (Class of '71)...

So I wear a lot of different hats for sure... But these days I mostly create and help others create...

A dedicated Cakewalk user since Cakewalk for Windows as I switched from being a beta tester and alpha site for the MIDI program Texture...

Best to you and thanks again for your efforts... I was guessing I knew the reason for the CC's not being right for this but was surprised the the brickwall was made of rice paper! ;-)

Much Thanks Again...
Keni

daveny5


Do you have the limiter as the last effect in the chain? Are you using it in the ProChannel or in the Fx bin?

This is the direction I was thinking. Is there anything at all adding volume or changing literally anything about the output after that limiter? Another channel or buss added to this buss after the limiter, even a slight EQ or volume fader change; something dumb, usually in my case. Also try a different limiter, not assuming you've already tried that. Does that brickwall limiter have a Post make-up gain? Does the FX, if used in ProChannel set to Post? 

Silly things, all of these, but also, Cakewalk's meters will report incorrectly in many cases. I don't deem them accurate.

Much thanks to all for the help...

I will end up fixing this earlier in the mix (edit the peak itself), but I was put off that I couldn't even get close as a quick-fix with CC... and the lack of "brickwall" function...

Mike... You're absolutely correct that adjusting for such a minute amount is outrageous... But then again I never had an analog comp that could do .1ms attack so I dreamed this might be digitally possible! ;-)

Much Thanks!

Keni

Hi Kenni,
 Do you have a copy of Adobe Audition?

 It has a hard limit process that simply cuts off the tops of the peak at any line you define.

 It's not very *musical*. The settings you are using are asking the signal to achieve an infinity:1 ratio within 0.6dB. That's a pretty sharp "knee".

 The CC wants to put a little curve on it... and may be... I'm just guessing here; something like a 40:1, or 20:1 ratio.

 If you really want the hard limit to cut off the tops with a square wave you can always just mix it so the peaks hit 0dBFS and then back the final wav down 0.3dB. You don't need a fancy plugin to cut a peak off square.

 Adobe Audition has an offline process known as hard limit that will cut a peak off at any line defined instantaneously. A true squaring of the wave. It just does what I described above as a macro.


 Have fun.

 best regards,
mike

I'd say grab Waves L1, L2, L3, or the bigger ones, but they do cost a little $. The L1 is likely pretty cheap, and works really well. Use your brickwall limiter before the Waves, then use the L1 after that to just take care of the peaks.

You may also try your limiter twice in a row, once with the settings you want, then one after at 0.0 threshold so it only takes care of the actual peaks in a better way. 

There are a couple of threads floating around about the CL not working ...

You sure you're just not chasing your tail?

Keni


Hi Danny...

Nothing to be sorry about... I'm very pleased that you've given me of your time and experience to try helping me. It's only thru conversation that we get to know about each other and what level of assistance is needed...

Your ideas are all excellent and in line with my usual work... I rarely do this, but it seemed a simple matter (from my experience) to quickly solve in the manner I tried. I've done this in analog,,,

You're absolutely right that the CC is not the right tool for the job... I can't find another that I own that is any better suited. I used to have the Timeworks compressor which has separate input and threshold setting which allowed me to do this kind of thing tho it's brickwall never seemed to catch everything even with a fast attack setting... I'd try it but it's no longer available on this new machine...

Last night I suddenly started experiencing a new and weird problem (which I'll be posting separately) and it made this a not-needed-till-later issue which I will likely approach from one of the other methods...

But I still don't understand why a brickwall limiter's ceiling isn't strictly enforced...?

Much thanks again...

Just in the spirit of getting to know each other... I'm a professional engineer from back in the days of analog tape... I've been a studio designer/builder/owner/operator for most of my life in one capacity or more... Lots of credits... No money! ;-)

As a performing musician prior to getting into engineering, I'm a Berklee alumni (Class of '71)...

So I wear a lot of different hats for sure... But these days I mostly create and help others create...

A dedicated Cakewalk user since Cakewalk for Windows as I switched from being a beta tester and alpha site for the MIDI program Texture...

Best to you and thanks again for your efforts... I was guessing I knew the reason for the CC's not being right for this but was surprised the the brickwall was made of rice paper! ;-)

Much Thanks Again...
Keni

Hi Keni,
 
Ah ok, so you're a REAL engineer with a musical background to boot! *bows* :) I like to consider myself a real engineer...lol...I come from the full analog days myself, a little school, some out of school classes, loads of intern work and "in the field experience" with more time being spent in the field recording on various machines and formats. I even still have tape machines and a few racks of gear sitting here that I don't use much anymore. I should have went to school for music, but got pretty lucky as a hacker that could pick up just about any instrument and make a sound with it enough to use on a recording. LOL! After 40 plus years of that, my hacking skills as a musician have improved a bit also. :)
 
Yeah some of these processors we have available ITB won't get you those analog results nor will they react like you hope at times. I will say this though, if you get the cash, two recommendations that I think an engineer of your caliber should really have....definitely the UAD 2 stuff at some point. They've come down on their prices and you'd probably be fine with a UAD 2 Duo, unless you have the cash for a quad. Between the UAD Fatso and the NEVE 33609, you're pretty covered as these babies really so sound and react "analog" to me and are two of the best compressors I have EVER used in my life.
 
The other thing I'd be lost without, is the Waves API 2500 compressor. Fantastic piece that is a must have in everyone's tool box in my opinion. As for limiters, that PSP Xenon is a beast and the Ferarri/Bently/Bugatti of limiters. It's just not something I use for dirty hip hop/rap rock or metal due to how clean it is. You know how it goes...sometimes we need a little dirt under the old fingernails. :)
 
I keep calling rhe Concrete Limiter CC...not sure why, lol....but I meant CL. :) Like Bub, I too have read a few things about people having some issues, so it very well could be that limiter.
 
Another option to consider is what Mike had to offer. Adobe is such a great program for stuff like this. In my opinion, Audition 3 is one of the most under-rated programs ever made. Seriously. Not for the recording aspect, but due to the editing possibilities in its "edit mode". It has things in it that you just can't get anywhere and they truly work. It's been doing some of the stuff that iZoptope Rx Advanced is doing now....and it's been doing it for 100 years longer. LOL! The effects look a bit lame at times...but man, this is one program where the lack of GUI talent doesn't bother me in the least. LOL!
 
If you have it, Scott Garrigus has an awesome little tool you can grab here: 
 
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/downloads/SetupSonarUtils__302.exe
 
What this enables you to do is, if you have Adobe, it allows you to add it to Sonar's "tools" menu. You can hightlite a track, click on tools, then Adobe, and it will import just that file into Adobe's editor section. You can do what you need to do using the tools in Adobe, then save it as "edited version" or whatever and re-import it right back into Sonar without messing up your original track. This has really saved my butt quite a few times and is worth having as an extra tool in the box.
 
Anyway, hope some of this helps. I'm curious, just for my head...what track or tracks are creating these peaks? Like, what instrument(s) is it?
 
It sounds like you got it figured out though, so I'm glad about that. Take care man...nice chattin' with you. :)
 
-Danny