Sometimes mastering your own mixes makes you too sensitive to really crushing things like an ME might. I stopped attending mastering sessions because all I heard was the difference between my mixes and the masters. This condition lasts for awhile once the project is done. By the time I've mixed everything I'm so close to the material that mastering is just too mind bending. The clients do much better than me. It takes me months before I can listen and really enjoy the mastered versions. Hearing it on the radio a few times helps too. The extra layer of limiting seems to do an excellent job of making me forget what it ever sounded like.

There are several good frequency spectrum charts available, which would give you an idea of where different instruments can compete for the same frequencies, which causes a muddy sound.

Thinning out these competing frequencies really gives you a lot more space, which keeps things sounding clearer when louder.  Less leads to more - particularly with the low end.

It takes a lot of time and a lot of learning to get good at it.  Hang in there and learn from the forum, videos, web, anything you can get your hands on.

Bob Bone

Bristol_Jonesey

brconflict



I've also found from Greg Calbi (I believe) who said that in your mastering chain, not to simply use one compressor or limiter, but maybe add a few with settings which are minimal, and with them all doing just a little bit instead of one doing a lot, you might get better results. Bub made a similar point above. Little bits at a time is sometimes better than taking one Limiter or compressor and infusing LOTS of gain.

I find it similar to painting - you get much better results form applying several thin coats than you do with a single thick coat

Be careful to compare anything that has to do with sound with anything that has do to with visual art on this forum, even if it's just metaphorical..

I did that once and "metaphorically" got shot in the head by a few members, who refused to see the cognitive connections you can make between the two and just focused on the technical differences.

Interesting read.  How do you measure "Perceived level"  ?

moffdnb

Interesting read.  How do you measure "Perceived level"  ?

It's that whole Dynamic Range thing, or lack there of.

Bub

moffdnb

Interesting read.  How do you measure "Perceived level"  ?

It's that whole Dynamic Range thing, or lack there of.

Using an old, tried and true analog meter or Dorrough is good, but IMO a Peak-Level digital meter that most DAW's have isn't going to tell you much. Wavelab has a good one that I use, which appears right next to the Peak-Level meter. It can tell you a lot, but your ears will be the ultimate judge. Care must be taken, though that your master isn't dramatically fatiguing when listening to 3-4 tracks at a time. Your listeners shouldn't reach for the volume knob to turn it down more often than up. 

Anyone can make a loud recording. Not just anyone can make that loud recording sound "good".

I like the one by Bluecat.

It measures Peak, RMS, is K-system compliant

Lovely plugin, shame it's not free

A Mackie 1202 Master meter ok for this?  I rarely look at its meters as I work ITB and only use for monitoring.





I try and get around -8db RMS in Digital domain but besides my Ears, any advise what to look for in analog?

Dude Ivey


Could someone please explain to me why it's so hard to get a master as loud as commercial masters? I realize they got more money but levels are levels right? I was trying to get a song as loud as a commercial track. I imported the song Nightmare by Avenged Sevenfold and check the RMS Levels and then i worked on mine and got it really close and even higher at times. Play them both and the commercial release sounds twice as loud. I know the levels are close enough to where both tracks should be close in volume. What am i missing? I mastered it with Ozone 5.

Here's what you're missing:
 
1. A song has to be recorded properly. "Any recording" is not going to end up loud unless you know how to record the right sounds from the start.
 
2. A song has to be mixed properly. If you haven't compressed and eq'd in all the right areas as well as panned properly, you get a big ball of goo when you try to make it loud.
 
3. The pre-mastering procedure is the most important, but is meaningless if 1 & 2 above are not considered. Manually leveling the audio as well as adjusting "rogue peaks" are essential. Remember, the loudest peak in your song is your cap on loudness regardless of how hard you hit a limiter.
 
Example: Your mix rides at about -6 dB peak as an average. However, you have a few spikes that go to -2dB which sends your final output level to -2 dB. You throw a limiter on or whatever else you do in Ozone and you are capped at your loudest peak no matter how loud you make things. Add in bad instrument recording choices as well as bad mixing practices and you fall way short of your mark.
 
4. Skipping number 3 above is not an option. You lose, period. Using Ozone and programs like it will not get you what you're looking for. If that were the case, the pro's would be using it. Ozone's limitations are it relies too much on processing to get loudness. Processing is NOT the key to making something loud and clear. The more you rely on a limiter or a compressor for loudness, the more you lose the battle.
 
5. If you choose the correct instrumentation, mix correctly while controlling peaks in the mix stage as well as using proper compression and eq-ing, you are on the road to a nice, loud master. Do a good pre-mastering session to control the levels and peaks, and you are even closer to a great final outcome.
 
6. The actual master at this stage of the game (if you've done 1-5 the right way) shouldn't involve loads of surgery. A nice eq curve, gentle compression to keep any little peaks and valleys in check due to the eq curve you've created, maybe a light multi-band limiter to police things to keep them a little tighter and then a good limiter to finalize things. You don't just use "any limiter".
 
There are differences. Some dirty up a sound (Boost 11) and don't really push the volume envelope correctly, some handle transients differently based on the bit, sample rate and style of the material (Waves L1+ is better for 16/44, Waves L2 is better for 24/44/48/96 and above good for rock, metal, dirty rap) and some like the PSP Xenon rule the roost for just about everything and are fully controllable in how they enhance your audio.
 
The key at the mastering stage is to know WHAT effects will be needed for a particular song as well as the style the song is in. You don't just rack up effects and go...you select the right effects for the job. In some situations, a UAD Precision Multi-band compressor is what I need on a song instead of a Waves API 2500 Compressor.
 
There are times where a Manley Mastering EQ is not the right choice for a song, so I'll bring in 3 Roger Nichols eq's and create all the bands I need for each eq area. One for lows and low mids, one for mids and high mids, one for highs.
 
There are times where the PSP Xenon limiter may be a bit too clean for a piece of music, so I'll use a Waves L2. There are times the mix may start to lose a little stereo field due to how it was mixed and how my processors are working with it. So we may need to widen the field slightly.
 
An eq that you used to do your high passing and low passing on your last song may not be the eq you use on the song you are currently working on. Each effect has a strength and weakness. Know when to use them and when to use something else.
 
I'm just giving you basic ideas here, but this area is much too vast to talk about in depth without posting a 6 page novel. To be honest, you'll never get what the big boys are getting unless you do all of the above because that's what they are doing. No one imports a song into a program and just lets it fly. There are several variables that need to take place in order to get loud, clear final results. Concentrate on a clear mix that sounds good...if you want to make it loud, turn up the volume.
 
At the end of the day, a properly recorded, mixed and mastered song will obliterate a super loud pro master when you turn up the volume. When you listen to "Nightmare", you'll notice that when you crank it up, it eventually caps off and replaces volume with distortion. You're maxxed out at like 5 on your volume level. Take a lower mastered file that's done right....it will sound lower at first, but once you crank it up, it will go up and up and up without any distortion.
 
Me personally? I've got no problems making things as loud as commercial releases. I hate doing it for clients, but if that's what they want, my challenge is to make it loud but as clear and clean as possible without getting a Metallica St. Anger sound. But I'd rather listen to something that will go up and up without giving me distortion. You'll blow your speakers before my stuff will distort. The super loud master, may blow your speakers at a lower volume due to distortion as well as DC offsets being present. Just about all those super loud masters have DC offsets that can definitely wreak a little havoc depending on just how bad they may be.
 
Anyway, do what you feel is best...but trust me, the above info is how you get what you're looking for. You can always send it out to a mastering guy if need be. The extra set of ears makes it worth it's weight in gold price wise. That's why guys like me are here....so you don't need to worry about mastering. :)
 
-Danny

Point-being, is that the OP wanted to know why his masters don't compete with some Professional Masters. I used to ask that question, and even after years of working on my methods and such, I will STILL occasionally ask the same question again. Then I will go pick apart the one I want to know more about until I have a few ideas. 

Today's Maxi-Masters in the midst of the volume wars are not attained without years of research and a lot of trial and error. The guys who succeed at making those masters have been doing it for years, and they still learn new techniques all the time. 

I don't personally think that Mastering is a truly subtle job anymore. There are some "tricks" to the trade that many never hear about or know, and you may never know them. There's equipment in some cases that make the difference, and we can't afford those units. There's ears out there that are seasoned perfectly for the best job, and we won't get those on our own. 

Bottom line is, learn all you can about it, but master your mixing skills first. If then you feel Mastering is an area you wish to be involved in, you'll be able to decide that later. 

Best of luck!!