OK, I've been all over the net researching this issue. Ive learned about LSB's and MSB's, controller messages, bank select methods, patch numbers and more... all to no avail. For some reason my Korg T3 will not switch to program (sound) bank B when controlled via Sonar.

I have my T3 in combi mode, have each track assigned to a different midi channel and set to receive program and controller messages. I have tried just about every instrument definition file on the net and all I have been sucessful at doing is changing patches on the A Bank. If I select a patch from bank B, the corresponding patch number from bank A will be selected.

At this point all I want to know is if it is even possible to do what I want. Has anyone been able to do this and if so, could you please help me. I can't be the only person who is trying to do this.



Thanks in advance,

Ken

In your Korg manual, or from Korg support, you need the exact controller code(s) for switching banks. One of my synths requires three non-intuitive controller messages to be sent to change banks. You will probably have to go into event view for that track to insert these. Something else to watch for is how different soft and hardware handle the first Bank name. Some call it Bank 0 while others call it Bank 1. You can guess what happens to the rest if the first one doesn't match.

Thanks for your input. I called Korg support and they told me that the bank select method was controller 32 and that the patch #'s for bank A=0 and B=1, although he referred to the bank select method and the bank (patch) numbers as the LSB and MSB. I'm not sure that this is correct. Aren't the LSB and MSB #'s used to calculate the patch values for the banks?

(MSBx128)+LSB=Patch value

I was able to record the sysex data for a bank change into Sonar by switching the bank manually on my T3 with Sonar recording it's MIDI output. However I cannot make use of the data because it's just a series of 3 rows, with columns containing numbers and letters that I don't understand... something like (THESE NUMBERS ARE NOT THE EXACT NUMBERS THAT WERE RECORDED, JUST A REPRESENTATION):

F24 10 30 00 E05
F24 10 30 10 E05
F24 10 30 00 E05

Any idea how I can extract the LSB and MSB from this data. All I need is these values and I can figure out the rest.

Thanks,

Ken

Madmix,

I'm afraid I don't have a Korg T3, but I do have an old Korg N1R,
and I had the same problems as you, in trying to change some
midi channels to instruments in different banks.

As a start, try looking for a patch which is very different in Bank A
to Bank B, ie a Helicopter noise in bank A, and a steel drum in
Bank B.

You need a short Midi file with only midi notes in it, and perhaps a
GM/GS reset sent as a SYSex when you open it.
Change the patch to be your BAnk A patch, and make sure the sound is correct.

Then try changing the Bank number from what it currently is (probably
none) to the (MSBx127) value. in the Sonar track pane, and see if it will
change the sound from the Bank A patch to the Bank B patch.

If it stays the same, add 1 and try again.

If it stays the same, try adding 127, and trying again.

I know it's a bit hit and miss, but that's the way I got to do patch changes
initially, until I worked out what was going on.

Now, it's easy, and my Instrument definition takes care of it, I don't know whether
there is one for the T3, have you tried CakewalkNet.com.

I will try and recall what I did to get it working properly, in the meantime,
stick with it, because it can be done.

Regards,
Colin.

Hi Ken:
First, I haven´t a T3, so my help can to be relative, OK?
I did import the T3 Instrument Definition in Sonar at Options/Instruments/Define/Import for take a look in the itens wich it have in the sections. My first impression is the Bank Select Method is wrongly assigned.
Your post made mention to the Korg support info about the T3 make use of the "Bank Select Method=32", right? If you go to Options/Instruments/Define and at the left side to open the Instruments/Korg T3, you´ll see the Bank Select Method = Patch 100 ... as the method used for the T3 change bank, right (or you see other info there?)?
If so, make this test:
1- In the same window, but at the right side, open the tree "Bank Select Methods";
2- With the lef mouse button, drag and drop the "Controller 32" option over the left side option "Bank Select Method=". If you made this correctly, now you see the option as "Bank Select Method=Controller 32". OK?
3- Press Close and OK in the next window;
4- Select one track wich have the MIDI output assigned to the T3, assign a MIDI channel in the 1 - 8 range). In the Bank box assign Bank B option and in the Patch box assign any Patch. Look at the T3 and see if the new assigned patch for the same MIDI channel you sent the info is a Bank B patch.
If all worked fine, you don´t need to save the Instrument Definition change. If didn´t work fine, go newly to the Step 2 above and return the info to Patch 100 ... dragging and dropping this option over the Bank Select Method= option.
I hope this can to work fine and to solve your problem. Post the result, please.
Greetings and good luck!

Madmix,
I've just tried changing banks - and all I do, is position my
mouse on the Bank panel in the Expanded Track view, and right click.

This gives me a list of all the possible patches, and shows the Bank
namesand numbers. I highlight a patch from a different Bank, click
OK, and Voila - my patch ahs changed, and the Bank has changed
on the N1R. I've got mul;tiple banks of sounds, and I can use all
of them at the same time.

See if your Instrument Def. file will allow you to do this. If it looks ok in
Sonar, but the Korg does not change, then check for a setting in the Korg,
(possibly a Global Setting) which allows or stops Program Changes, etc,
and make sure they are set to allow. (The Korg default used to be
disabled).

Hope this helps,

Colin.

ORIGINAL: ColinB52

Then try changing the Bank number from what it currently is (probably
none) to the (MSBx127) value. in the Sonar track pane, and see if it will
change the sound from the Bank A patch to the Bank B patch.

If it stays the same, add 1 and try again.

If it stays the same, try adding 127, and trying again.

ColinB52,

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't mind putting in the time to get this thing to work. I don't, however understand what you mean by the (MSBx127) value. Is there an option in the bank dropdown of the track panel called "MSB x 127"? Or is this a calculation that I must perform based on the MSB? If the latter, then I will need the MSB because I don't know this number (the manual does not provide the MSB or LSB values). Also, with regard to "If it stays the same, add 1 and try again. If it stays the same, try adding 127, and trying again.", could you elaborate a little (please forgive my lack of understanding). BTW, I checked my T3 settings and all is a go for receiving bank/program changes.

Also Juca,

I tried that method of changing the bank selct method and controller 32 didn't work. Thanks for your help though.

Thanks all,

Ken

Ken,

I've had a search, but cannot find a manual for your Korg.

If you have one, you need to find the pages which show
theVoice Name list (probably in the appendix, or perhaps
as a seperate booklet.)

They will show lists of different voices, and at the top of each
list, you should see the MSB and LSB values you need to use
to access each Bank.

FOr instance, I have a r:CM Bank, which has the values MSB =127
and LSB =0.

So, you multiply MSB by 128 (not 127 as in my earlier note)
and add the LSB, so you get 127x128 + 0 = 16256.

In the Bank select box for the track you want to change the voice of,
you put 16256, and the patch number is the number of the voice from
that bank you want to play.

Only problem is that you may be 1 out in your calculations (well that's what I found)
Some synth manufacturers don't seem to understand zeroes, so you
may need to alter your calculation by 1 (an LSB 1) or 127 (an MSB 1)
or 128 ( an MSB 1 and an LSB 1). Same applies to the patches.

The data you listed earlier e.g. F2 41 03 01 0E 05 is Hex, and is the raw midi data.
Again, a bit of searching in the Korgs midi implementstion pages (usually the appendix)
should explain what the message is - if you are not a programmer of any sort,
it might be difficult to understand) - which was why I was loooking for a copy
of your manual.

The Instrument definition file, is basically a file which contains a list of
all the different patches available to your synth, with the Bank
MSB, LSB and patch number details associated. So then you can search
in Sonar using patch names which relate to the names listed in your synth.

Hope this helps

Colin

ColinB52,

I have the original manual and all docs @ home. I remember seeing the voice list but not the LSB & MSB numbers. But then, I wouldn't have known to look for them. Is this part of the MIDI implementation section? Regardless, I will check when I get home today and let you know. I do hope the info is there .

Ken

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't mind putting in the time to get this thing to work. I don't, however understand what you mean by the (MSBx127) value. Is there an option in the bank dropdown of the track panel called "MSB x 127"? Or is this a calculation that I must perform based on the MSB? If the latter, then I will need the MSB because I don't know this number (the manual does not provide the MSB or LSB values).

Only for clarify: MSB (Most Significant Byte) is the Patch Bank Method wich Korg told you (32 - I don´t know if this is the correct number) and LSB (Low Significant Byte) is the Bank Number wich Korg told you (0=Bank A and 1=Bank B - I don´t know if these are the correct numbers).

Also Juca,

I tried that method of changing the bank selct method and controller 32 didn't work. Thanks for your help though.

I´m sorry that didn´t work. Have you tryed the "Normal" Bank Select Method or the "0" Bank Select Method?
I have a Korg X5DR (module) and it use the Normal type method. This method use both Control 0 and Control 32, each one with one value, for change the banks. As suggested by ColinB52, verify in the Voice List Name of T3 manual the MSB and LSB for each Bank and compare with the Instrument Definition you are using. If values are different, change to the values showed in the T3 manual.
Good luck!