• Software
  • SOANR PLAT: Gold Standard, lifetime updates. Who's next? (p.2)
2016/06/08 11:31:53
smallstonefan
Is that a gluten free double fudge brownie post? :P
2016/06/08 12:11:22
bapu
smallstonefan
Is that a gluten free double fudge brownie post? :P


Yes, life time.
2016/06/08 12:15:24
bapu
Jeff,
 
For grins I just went to the Presonus forum and read that 4 page locked thread that got "out of hand". 
 
Really? "out of hand"?
 
Ok, *maybe* the last four posts but I thought it was an interesting read, (even though most "obervations" of CW's offer/announcement were a bit off the mark of what it actually is (IMO). I did not feel it was out of hand, with exception that the house rules is no profanity even if it was written as **** and **** and ****. 
 
 
2016/06/08 12:19:05
Mesh
Bapu took a peek into the other side while enjoying immortality in having cake.....and eating it too?
2016/06/08 12:21:03
azslow3
May be someone has mentioned the following already, but I have not seen.
 
There are 2 generic examples for "Lifetime updates".
 
* The first is proved by 100s (if not 1000s) examples as very commercially successful. Lifetime update for big (and small) programs, and you do not even forced to pay a single cent initially! "Free to play" Online Games. Many of them exist for years and really significantly "updated" all that time.
 
* Every customer implicitly assume "Lifetime updates" for hardware. You do not usually see "you will get no new driver after 1 year". When that happens, people start complaining: "why there is no support for my VS700? I have paid a lot of money 5 years ago!". I mean everyone is implicitly expecting such lifetime updates and is very disappointed when the product is declared EOL.
Some companies, like RME, are providing quasi lifetime updates. And they are successful from all perspectives.
 
What I meas is that Cakewalk is far from the first who play "lifetime" game. But there should be something to get money from. The best and safest way is aging hardware (Apple) or binding "lifetime" to aging hardware (Microsoft). But "aging sound" strategy for FX/Synth can be used as well.
2016/06/08 12:39:07
Brian Walton
smallstonefan
Since you asked... I think lifetime updates are a business mistake and I don't see others jumping at the opportunity to follow.


One new customer in this model equals 5 current customers renewing in a year.  I'd imagine the majority of users do not upgrade every single year.  
 
I don't expect others to follow suit, but it seems like a pretty good play for a company that has not won over the majority of the market, despite being one of the most feature rich.  
 
Fruity loops offers the lifetime update model across all of their versions, even the cheap ones.  It is also one of the best selling DAWs in the industry, and quite frankly I think it that is a major contributor, not because it is superior in anyway.  
 
From the posts I read on the Presonus forum...looks like they closed it out of fear to me.  
2016/06/08 12:59:01
smallstonefan
Sorry azslow3 but those examples aren't the same.
 
In the case of hardware, it doesn't matter if you use it for one day or you use it for 10 years - the profit is built into the initial purchase. The company invests no money in improving the hardware you purchased once you receive it. In addition, they ARE improving newer products in an attempt to entice you to buy more hardware.
 
As for games, they are deliberately built from day one on a pay to play model and it's all centered around micro-transactions. These are purchases so small as to be "no-brainers" individually, but the volume at which they sell them adds up to real money. 
 
To all reading this, please realize I am not saying this is how Cakewalk is or will be - I love the company and want nothing more than for them to be successful. I am not a naysayer on Cakewalk. I bought the lifetime and I'm loyal as ever. This is simply the reality of risks when going with a lifetime model, and it's very difficult if not impossible to manage even with the best of intentions and highest character. It just is.
 
I can tell you that Cakewalk used to count on me for an upgrade every version - what is that, something like $99 per year? I now paid my $99 fee for lifetime and they will probably see ZERO or very little money from me ever again. Why? I have Komplete Ultimate, most UAD stuff, Arturia V Collection, BFD 3, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Cake would have to have something very compelling to get me to spend more money, and most likely that money will go towards the development of additional products. The core product requires constant improvements to stay competitive and show value. If there is no revenue stream for that continued development, that will be a problem. Also, once you've given Cakewalk your lifetime upgrade, you are no longer a paying customer. Cakewalk is a great company with great people, but I'm telling you straight up that when it comes to business decisions, paying customers trump "non paying" customers in the prioritization department. When push comes to shove, money and resources get spent where money can be made. We as customers run the risk of being marginalized once we aren't paying any more money. How many updates do YOU expect to be made to the core engine in a given year to feel that you have gotten your money's worth? How much do you expect to be added to the product in a given year to feel you got your money's worth? What happens when Cakewalk wants to charge you for something that you feel SHOULD be included in Core? What happens when a bunch of people feel that the program isn't delivering on what they paid for?
 
Also, "lifetime" is a loooong time. I know of a company that offered "lifetime support" to a some clients in the early days. Eventually, the company moved to a model very much like Cakewalk's new model - where customers were paying monthly and support was rolled in with software updates. Customers used to pay for updates and got the free support. The new model did not accommodate that in process OR pricing. Feelings were hurt and exceptions had to be created for many customers. It ain't easy. Lots can happen in the future - a competitor might come up with a better and more creative option that causes you pain, but once you are committed to lifetime updates you lose a lot of your ability to be nimble and flexible with licensing and pricing.
 
Many of you did NOT want to move to Windows 10 as you like Windows 7. Microsoft always sunsets support for past OS's after a time - you want help and support you need to upgrade. A lifetime model NEEDS to work the same way; a company simply can't provide quality on support for every version forever. If a company produces an update that you don't want or can't run, do you complain that you are now no longer getting the benefit of your "lifetime" upgrade? Do you accept that you are out of the loop in getting updates until the situation changes? Do you go to a competitor?
 
Look, it is what it is. Enjoy what Cakewalk delivers and believe in the company (I do!) Just don't try to justify to all of us that this is a normal and healthy business practice with zero risk to each side. Cause it ain't. :)
2016/06/08 13:20:11
bapu
smallstonefan
a company simply can't provide quality on support for every version forever. 

James,
 
I think I get what you're saying, however.....for CW it's NOT free lifetime support for every version. It's Platinum only for now. And it may not even be every Platinum user.
 
1. The offer is ONLY until Aug 31st and some (upstairs) have already said they're too broke to even do the $99. On the flip side, some Artist and Pro users (who may have been on the fence) will most likely convert to Platinum.
 
2. There are the monthly pay Platinum customers who up to now only qualify for $199 and cannot afford that. They remain a steady stream of revenue for CW.
 
3. There are probably some Platinum users out there who didn't get the email and don't visit the forums. They *may* remain yearly revenue members (if they aren't too pi$$ed once they find out what happened ).
 
AFAIK (based on CW staffers comments upstairs) there are no plans to eliminate Artist or Pro or monthly pay plans. And they still sell Music Creator, synths, FXs and have Steam users, right?
 
 
2016/06/08 13:22:15
smallstonefan
cool. As I said, I want them to be successful. :)
 
And I would also like those life-time gluten free double-fudge brownies please! 
2016/06/08 13:24:48
bapu
smallstonefan
cool. As I said, I want them to be successful. :)
 
And I would also like those life-time gluten free double-fudge brownies please! 


mmuffss daaad uuuufffdssaay?
 
Ooops, the brownies, they be gone.
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account