My problem is that if I did do any more foot stomping I'd bust my other foot.... 

LOL Trimph!

  You just have to do what I did . . . switch to hammering the table with your fist!

John,

I don't think anyone is opposed to improving staff view.  I can't imagine any rational person being opposed to any improvement in the program, even if it is for features that they may not personally use as long as it does not affect the features they do use.  i think the conflict on this topic arises from the snobby tone and insults dished out by the staff view improvement mob. It is more than possible to adamantly make requests without resorting to putting down people who may not rely on the particular feature you are championing.  There are quite a few people on this board who use Sonar professionally who happen to not rely on SV, but according to the likes of Vintagevibe, these people are somehow less professional than him. According to him, there is this assumption that people not using SV for composing are unable to read music and tonedef.  Insulting the customer base because you have an issue with the company is childish and it leads to conflict that does not help gain sympathy for their cause.

Just as a note, (if no one mentioned it yet) there is a free program "MuseScore" which is a descent notation program, similar to Guitar Pro, but not guitar centric.

http://musescore.org/

Also there is Power Tab if you want a Guitar Tab Centric editor:

http://www.power-tab.net/guitar.php

My apologies if someone pointed these out already.

dubdisciple


John,

I don't think anyone is opposed to improving staff view.  I can't imagine any rational person being opposed to any improvement in the program, even if it is for features that they may not personally use as long as it does not affect the features they do use.  i think the conflict on this topic arises from the snobby tone and insults dished out by the staff view improvement mob. It is more than possible to adamantly make requests without resorting to putting down people who may not rely on the particular feature you are championing.  There are quite a few people on this board who use Sonar professionally who happen to not rely on SV, but according to the likes of Vintagevibe, these people are somehow less professional than him. According to him, there is this assumption that people not using SV for composing are unable to read music and tonedef.  Insulting the customer base because you have an issue with the company is childish and it leads to conflict that does not help gain sympathy for their cause.

Very interesting post. I am not in favor of anyone being "snobbish". We do see it though on both sides.

It does seem snobbish to me when this request has been brought up for years and we see the same replies.
We have even seen that some would prefer X1 didn't have notation at all. To me that is a high level of snobbishness. Perhaps some haven't noticed this but for as long as Sonar has been around the users that only record audio seem to have a very high regard for that and disdain anyone that uses MIDI.

What baffles me is how can anyone be opposed to people using the tools that are part of a program and asking for improvements to those tools. No one can deny that there have been post in this very thread that propose that very idea.

Yes notation is a skill and I guess some few view it as a snobbish skill. Which ever side one is coming from though, that shouldn't enter into it.

Perhaps we all need to see the other side and feel what that side is feeling. That doesn't mean that asking for improvements in SV is not a valid request

John, using notation in and of itself is not snobbish.  it is the idea that proposing that anyone who does not use that feature is somehow less professional that is the snobbish component.  Like i said, a lot of times it is not what is said but how it is said.  When remarks become personal and insulting, the focus of the conversation tends to get lost. People who are somewhat apathetic about the issue suddenly become "I'm against whatever that jackass is for" creeps in. The very first post i ever read by vintagevibe was a post he started and broadly insulted those who did not use staff view and claimed they could not read music. That tone will not get you anywhere except those who are already on your side.

I do feel sympathy for those who need improvements just like i feel for those who want improvements in other areas. Being pragmatic, I'm not going to cry if the feature is lost, but certainly have no desire to see it go or diminish quality. I feel that improvements make the program more valuable as a whole to users of all professional levels and styles.  It's just hard to assist a fight for those who clearly feel they are superior.

Hahahaha! I'm laughing at the idea that knowing how to read and write music properly is "snobbish". I mean my personal opinion is that notation is overly cumbersome and outdated but it is what we have and it's been around for hundreds of years but more importantly IT WORKS. Also it is extremely useful to learn even if you don't intend to do any sight reading or staff composition. Understanding how the circle of fifths works and how it relates to notation is a HUGE learning breakthrough for grasping general music theory and I try to get those ideas and concepts through to anyone I teach these days. Once you see it in your minds eye everything becomes WAY easier.

And on the opposite end I didn't use notation until about 8 years ago (been playing for over 20) so I certainly don't sneer at those who don't use it. In fact I don't use it for anything other than teaching as I learn most stuff by ear or tab (or both). However now that I have X1 I probably will use it just to construct MIDI parts because I feel it might be easier for me than Piano Roll. Cheers.

Beepster..i did not say knowing how to read and write music properly is snobbish.  i said assuming that those who do not compose music in sonar using SV and assuming those who do not use it cannot read music is snobbish.  Big difference!  So, please read what i say carefully before making a statement that does not apply.  I have been reading and writing music since childhood and think it is still a valuable tool that is not going away anytime soon.  My point was that just because someone does not choose to use Sonar in that way says nothing about their ability or professionalism.