Oh - there we go again.. Is it that time of year already? I am sure Cakwalk already knows it is wanted, so (other than do a feature request) making a lot of noise will not help any bit. Even the brand new -not yet released- Live 9 has NO VST3 support. The reason is simple - it's software patented, so other DAW developers probably have to pay for it to use it. Yes, there is a SDK, but (as far as I know) that's only for developing plugins and not for incorporating anything into a DAW. But - I could be wrong here. Anyway - Cakewalk has said several times again and again VST3 would be implemented in the near future (probably after finishing negotiations with Steinberg about it). Ableton said the same thing. So - I guess we just have to be patient...

I have to say I'm with scook on this one - coding an updated plugin to conform to VST3 just isn't in the same ballpark as modifying a host to do the same. Not to mention the QA time needed to test, retest and then retest again.  And with all the **** about "stability" recently, would anyone really want something as fundamental as a plug-in format change to be rushed for any reason? 
 
Oh...  And of course another VST3 thread aint gonna make it happen any faster.  
 
 
 
 
PS...  Although I have no dire need for VST3 myself, I do look forward to it for the enhancements that Bub mentioned.  I'm all for making things better, even if it's incremental. 

Bub


This is a HUGE benefit ...

"Managing large plug-in sets and multiple virtual instruments on typical studio computer systems can often be difficult because of CPU performance limits. VST3 helps to improve overall performance by applying processing to plug-ins only when audio signals are present on their respective inputs. Instead of always processing input signals, VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed."

I quoted the same passage in another tread about vst3 quite a while ago. I was told by Noel that this has already been implemented in sonar since the beginning of time even with dxi and vst3 offers nothing new in these regards. 


Maybe it's my misunderstanding, but it sounds like the passage is saying vst3 only uses CPU when a clip is present. To me that is a huge benefit. The way sonar has always appeared to work for me is once a plugin is placed in the effects bin or clip bin it continuously utilizes CPU whether a clip is present or not.


Even before vst3 this is a feature I've often wrote about on these forums that would be great in sonar. For instance, in SAWstudio you can automate plugin bypass to turn off CPU processing for the plugin. 


So for instsnce you have a very short clip you want delay on, the plugin doesn't need to utilize cpu the whole song. 

WDI

Bub

This is a HUGE benefit ...

... VST3 helps to improve overall performance by applying processing to plug-ins only when audio signals are present on their respective inputs. Instead of always processing input signals, VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed."

I quoted the same passage in another tread about vst3 quite a while ago. I was told by Noel that this has already been implemented in sonar since the beginning of time even with dxi and vst3 offers nothing new in these regards. 

So for instsnce you have a very short clip you want delay on, the plugin doesn't need to utilize cpu the whole song.

That's how I read it too.

For example, if I throw Guitar Rig 4 on a track, my CPU usage shoots up whether there's any wav data there or not ... it's always running. If I'm reading the above quote right, if Guitar Rig 4 was a VST3, it would only be enabled and using system resources when an audio was present ... That's not how it works now.

Chicken and egg argument: just because Y happened before X doesn't mean it is wrong. Yup CPU saving is always a good idea but also brings an extra set of complications. That doesn't make it a bad thing though... Things move on. I certainly would wait for a  pack after this got released. Cake would be wise to wait till X3 for this, looks like it is their intention anyway.

The way sonar has always appeared to work for me is once a plugin is placed in the effects bin or clip bin it continuously utilizes CPU whether a clip is present or not.

Yeah... what's up with that? I've started keeping the Performance Module in the Control Bar just to watch what's doing what and as I'm adding effects and synths to my project I'm watching more and more activity appear across the cores... which is whatever but the weird thing is that activity is still there even if I have playback stopped. It doesn't make sense to me. And seriously when I started the project and was just tracking only the first core was active. The other stuff only started blinking more and more in increments as I added stuff so I don't think it's anything else on my system causing it and the activity doesn't seem to increase when I start playback.

Very strange... but I'm only a novice computer nerd so I don't understand what it means or whether it's normal or not.  Just strikes me that if nothing is playing there should not be that much CPU activity. 

Meh.

Beepster

The way sonar has always appeared to work for me is once a plugin is placed in the effects bin or clip bin it continuously utilizes CPU whether a clip is present or not.

Yeah... what's up with that? I've started keeping the Performance Module in the Control Bar just to watch what's doing what and as I'm adding effects and synths to my project I'm watching more and more activity appear across the cores... which is whatever but the weird thing is that activity is still there even if I have playback stopped. It doesn't make sense to me. And seriously when I started the project and was just tracking only the first core was active. The other stuff only started blinking more and more in increments as I added stuff so I don't think it's anything else on my system causing it and the activity doesn't seem to increase when I start playback.

Very strange... but I'm only a novice computer nerd so I don't understand what it means or whether it's normal or not.  Just strikes me that if nothing is playing there should not be that much CPU activity. 

Meh.

You're 100% right. That's how it works.

I freeze everything now. That way I have the most resources possible available.

But, I always unfreeze everything just before I export. I don't fully understand how frozen tracks are handled during export, so I just unfreeze everything and make sure it sounds the way I want with all the effects going.

The only way around this now, is to put all of your VST's in the FX Chain Module and Automate it's on/off button. You can't do it with individual effects, but it does work on the entire FX Chain Module.

Bub

Beepster

The way sonar has always appeared to work for me is once a plugin is placed in the effects bin or clip bin it continuously utilizes CPU whether a clip is present or not.

Yeah... what's up with that? I've started keeping the Performance Module in the Control Bar just to watch what's doing what and as I'm adding effects and synths to my project I'm watching more and more activity appear across the cores... which is whatever but the weird thing is that activity is still there even if I have playback stopped. It doesn't make sense to me. And seriously when I started the project and was just tracking only the first core was active. The other stuff only started blinking more and more in increments as I added stuff so I don't think it's anything else on my system causing it and the activity doesn't seem to increase when I start playback.

Very strange... but I'm only a novice computer nerd so I don't understand what it means or whether it's normal or not.  Just strikes me that if nothing is playing there should not be that much CPU activity. 

Meh.

You're 100% right. That's how it works.

I freeze everything now. That way I have the most resources possible available.

But, I always unfreeze everything just before I export. I don't fully understand how frozen tracks are handled during export, so I just unfreeze everything and make sure it sounds the way I want with all the effects going.

The only way around this now, is to put all of your VST's in the FX Chain Module and Automate it's on/off button. You can't do it with individual effects, but it does work on the entire FX Chain Module.

There is a bug, recognized by Cakewalk, whereby automation of an FX Chain's on/off button does not work unless the ProChannel in question is either open in the console view, or in the inspector. I wrote about this problem recently and someone from Cakewalk - I think it may have been Noel - replied to say that they were aware of the issue, but that it was too big of a problem to fix without breaking something else in the process, so they had no plans to fix it. 

Its normal. No different from outboard equipment. When you press stop for instance your reverbs will not stop.

Apparently not normal in VST3, I guess each plugin sends a message to the daw to request that it is turned off or on. The daw would have to manage this sort of thing, code would be quite complex methinks, esp as it would have to compensate with rogue plugins. On the other hand dodgy plugins would be easier to isolate.

Beepster

The way sonar has always appeared to work for me is once a plugin is placed in the effects bin or clip bin it continuously utilizes CPU whether a clip is present or not.

Yeah... what's up with that? I've started keeping the Performance Module in the Control Bar just to watch what's doing what and as I'm adding effects and synths to my project I'm watching more and more activity appear across the cores... which is whatever but the weird thing is that activity is still there even if I have playback stopped. It doesn't make sense to me. And seriously when I started the project and was just tracking only the first core was active. The other stuff only started blinking more and more in increments as I added stuff so I don't think it's anything else on my system causing it and the activity doesn't seem to increase when I start playback.

Very strange... but I'm only a novice computer nerd so I don't understand what it means or whether it's normal or not.  Just strikes me that if nothing is playing there should not be that much CPU activity. 

Meh.

My guess is that even when playback is stopped, the VST's have their processes active and running. They're probably working flat out to process a frantic series of zero's