D'oh! I was using Ctrl + Click + Drag as well. The Ctrl + C > Ctrl + V making a new clip makes sense considering the lasso does indeed highlight the clip. I guess the TV editor takes priority at that point and obviously a copy/paste of an entire clip produces a new clip in that situation. I don't think this is a bug per se but more of a design quirk? Flaw? You'll notice that when recording a MIDI clip live that if you let the recording continue beyond what you've played that unplayed section will disappear (I believe that's the "Trimming" being referred to... maybe not). Therefore it's treating the original section that was played as the entire clip and ignoring the extended part so when the notes get lassoed it thinks you want the whole clip selected. I'm not sure but I think this might even happen with audio clips (extend the clip boundaries beyond the recorded section > Lasso waveform). I'll try that out later.

Personally I find the Ctrl + C/V method of editing in the PRV a little cumbersome because as far as I know you have to set the Now Time at the start of the paste region or use Paste Special (not sure Paste Special allows time selection... something else I'll check out). What would be nice, and perhaps there is already a way to do this, would be if there was a way to unbind the PRV from the Track View as far as clip editing so the only thing that gets effected in the TV is the length of the clip when you insert notes. Also maybe allowing in this mode to have a special way to paste that inserts the data following the cursor/Aim Assist instead of the Now Time. Like Ctrl + Shift + V or something. In fact I wouldn't mind that last feature in the Track View as well. Just point, hit a key binding and whatever is on the clipboard gets inserted.

Meh. What do I know?

Cheers, dude. 

Derp... I could have just looked at the image of the Paste Special box posted above.

Ugh, just woke up. Need tea.

;-p

sharke,  I get the same behavior when I try your experiment.  However, I guess I wonder WHY you would want to do this.  In your 4-note example, such as a kick drum, why not just have the 4 notes, and be sure the clip ends at the end of the 4th beat.  Quantize as desired.  Then, to copy, you have a coupole of choices-  you can select the clip and Copy/Paste using various methods, or you could just Groove Clip it.  And it is very accurate and correct to do it this way.  Of course you could then Bounce To Clip to make 1 clip out of the copied clips.

Am I missing something?  (This is similar to your other post about Clip Length with extended clip curtains IMO)  I don't know why you want to extend the curtains so much.  (My brother does this and I don't know why.)  It's cleaner to have the clip just contain data and no blank space (IMHO).

Good luck!

tbosco


sharke,  I get the same behavior when I try your experiment.  However, I guess I wonder WHY you would want to do this.  In your 4-note example, such as a kick drum, why not just have the 4 notes, and be sure the clip ends at the end of the 4th beat.  Quantize as desired.  Then, to copy, you have a coupole of choices-  you can select the clip and Copy/Paste using various methods, or you could just Groove Clip it.  And it is very accurate and correct to do it this way.  Of course you could then Bounce To Clip to make 1 clip out of the copied clips.

Am I missing something?  (This is similar to your other post about Clip Length with extended clip curtains IMO)  I don't know why you want to extend the curtains so much.  (My brother does this and I don't know why.)  It's cleaner to have the clip just contain data and no blank space (IMHO).

Good luck!

I think I already explained why I had blank space in the clip. Imagine you have a 2 bar kick pattern. You're not happy about the second bar, so you delete those notes. When I do that, Sonar doesn't resize the clip, it just leaves that second half blank. OK, so I figure I'll take the kicks from the first bar and paste them into the second bar. If you're working in the PRV, at that point you're not really thinking about clip sizes or anything like that. You just want to create your desired beat on the grid. So you would think you'd be able to just copy all of those kicks from the first part and paste them into the second half. 


Some people like to copy-drag, others prefer to set the time marker at the desired spot and paste. Apps generally have a number of ways of achieving the same thing. For instance, I select clips and hit Q to quantize, but other people might prefer to select it from the menu. They should all work the same way. If I'm in the PRV and select some notes, why should that select the entire clip? I don't want to select the clip in the track view, just the notes in the PRV. Sonar seems to be making an assumption that when you select all of the notes of a clip in the PRV, that you must want to select the whole clip as a unit. That's not always the case, which is what threw me. If I wanted to select the clip, I would just go to the track view and select it there. 


So note that I'm not surprised that pasting these notes resulted in a new clip - it's more that I'm surprised that selecting the notes in the PRV should cause the whole clip to be selected. 


As for clip length....horses for courses I guess. If I'm working on a EDM track that's all modular MIDI patterns, I much prefer to have all of my clips of even length. They just "slot together" more neatly, they look better and I guess it's a psychological thing. For instance, sometimes I'll take a 2 bar breakbeat pattern and slice it into 4 so that I can rearrange the pieces and come up with some variation. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when I take that clip and slice it into 4 equal pieces, I'm not left with 4 equal clips. Some of them are shorter and some of them are longer, depending on where Sonar has truncated them to get rid of empty space. In my opinion, there should be an option to turn off this automatic clip trimming. I'd rather be in charge of my own clip length. Again, we all work and think differently, and a good program should accommodate that. 

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when I take that clip and slice it into 4 equal pieces, I'm not left with 4 equal clips. Some of them are shorter and some of them are longer, depending on where Sonar has truncated them to get rid of empty space

How are you splitting your clip up Sharke?


I just tried this on some random Midi Clip, using the "Split Repeatedly" section of the Split tool - and it creates shorter clips all of the same length.

Bristol_Jonesey

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when I take that clip and slice it into 4 equal pieces, I'm not left with 4 equal clips. Some of them are shorter and some of them are longer, depending on where Sonar has truncated them to get rid of empty space

How are you splitting your clip up Sharke?


I just tried this on some random Midi Clip, using the "Split Repeatedly" section of the Split tool - and it creates shorter clips all of the same length.

I'm just using the split tool and doing it with Aim Assist and snap settings. How do you "split repeatedly" (sounds disgusting but never mind)?

Again, this behavior is NOT a bug but the NEW way X2 behaves.

The HELP file explains everything you need to know under Copy Dialog

sharke

Bristol_Jonesey

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when I take that clip and slice it into 4 equal pieces, I'm not left with 4 equal clips. Some of them are shorter and some of them are longer, depending on where Sonar has truncated them to get rid of empty space

How are you splitting your clip up Sharke?


I just tried this on some random Midi Clip, using the "Split Repeatedly" section of the Split tool - and it creates shorter clips all of the same length.

I'm just using the split tool and doing it with Aim Assist and snap settings. How do you "split repeatedly" (sounds disgusting but never mind)?

Select the clip, right click and select Split. This will open up a dialog box where there are several options to enhance your splitting experience.

I have lived on Ctl C V X Z since 1997 there were a few bugs when non destructive midi clips were introduced 10 + years ago now ( oh god Im old) BUT X2 really has got far to many "little" quirks it's like half of the existing refined code from Sonar 1- 8.5 has gone.
       The Gui facelift since x1 has rattle the solid foundation of sonar. The real problem is WHERE to go to from here? Can't go back a version u miss all the new good bits but the excessive breaks in workflow are really bad, it takes a few months to really sink in how much time is lost. Im going to head back to X1d and see if I can handle it as that was the last version that had was consistantly completing traks in a session without too many interruptions.

The Editing ,LDC, Timing and other quirqs need adressing in the x2b or I feel there is a rising tide of SEASONED users who will really make themselves heard .

Split repeatedly is cool but very limited. I wish you could select more defined values directly in the dialog. The lowest value is one measure IIRC. You can insert a bunch of markers and it will split repeatedly there but that more work.

Hmm... I just had a thought. I wonder if the guy who posted about Block Mode is aware of the Split Repeatedly feature.