Anderton


I think there is a MUCH larger issue at hand here. The problems people experience with Sonar are not unique to Sonar; just check out other forums. Another example: people talk about how RME's drivers are rock-solid, but go to their forums and you'll see threads like "CLICKS AND POPS WITH ADAT INPUT! HELP!!"

In my view, the problem is simply that the complexity of the technology has outstripped the ability of software developers to cope with it. I think you'll see more people opting for systems like Rain Computing's Rain Pak, which is a computer "ecosystem" geared to specific software, and backed by extensive support.

It must be good for you to have access to folk that will allow you to post song forum material here while some equally adept producers have to slum it downstairs.
 
Anyway, my bigger concern is what you've written here.  Yes you'll see people having issues with different setups and different cofigurations on ALL the forums, of that there is not doubt.
 
The question really is the degree of the issues being reported by legitimate customers having genuine concerns.
 
I use other products like yourself and also frequent different forums like yourself yet my impression is totally different.  Every single other music application I use has a much better "what is written in the manual translating to what actually happens" ratio than Sonar. 
You have, given your position in the industry full awareness that many programs perform very well in doing what they are supposed to do without issue, some do it exceptionally well even given the complexities, which in many cases are much easier from a developer perspective to deal with than they were 15 years ago when you consider we all can have storage, processor power and memory to burn these days along with more unified support for developers on different platforms than in days of yore.  Some developers even manage to provide cross platform support, imagine that.  Identical behaviour on more than one OS, so it can't be because the technical stuff it TOO technical to be of any use surely.
 
It therefore makes me wonder your motivation for making comments like this when you are totally aware the complaints and causes for complaint are far more overwhelming here than they are most other places.  Most forums I visit you have to look pretty hard to replicate an issue someone is having, here they are pretty hard to avoid.  I'd say that was a huge difference that isn't covered by the populist comment that ALL software has issues.  Most products issues aren't the major feature they have been consistently seen to be here after the last few good years.
 
What would be really nice after several years of the same placations from endless different sources would be for someone to step up to the plate and say "Yes we have big problems here and we want you to stand by us because we're really going to deal with them this time".
 
The quote above, if I still had any optimism left, would have dashed any of it.
 
 
It is a real shame because I'm still a really happy Sonar user, it just that because of so many issues reported here I'd have been foolish to migrate from the version I'm still using, and incidentally many of the bugs I reported for the version I'm using still exist in the latest and greatest.  As opposed to X1 which we all know now didn't in reality offer anything new over the previous version, the new feature set really attracted me this time, but the same 'ol same 'ol as signified in your post and the prevailing attitude of the vendor over many years now toward it's paying customers WRT seriously tackling quality issues is still keeping me away.
 
While the company may only be paying lip service to it's customers, I'm listening to them and not liking much of what I've been hearing since X1's launch which is a long while ago now.

Hi Craig,
I read what you wrote as a description at the YouTube link provided in the OP and responded to that:

"Published on Nov 28, 2012
This song was written by Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil, and made famous by Eric Burdon and the Animals. I contacted the Harry Fox Agency to find out what kind of license I needed to put this on YouTube, and they replied they don't do licensing for this kind of application, but that YouTube has signed deals with several publishers allowing for this type of non-commercial content to be posted. They also said that if such an agreement had not been signed, YouTube would inform me and the video would need to be removed. So...I hope you enjoy this tribute to some awesome songwriters, and an equally awesome band, and I hope it's allowed to stay up"



I admit it, I was sort of surprised that you bothered to call the Harry Fox Agency about something they have never, ever, offered a service for. I was also surprised to think that someone would accept and then pass on unsolicited and unprofessional legal advice that originates from an agent that has stated the subject is not their expertise.





With regards to the song:

The world wide signature sound of audio console overdrive; Eric Burden's 1965 performance of We Gotta Get Out of This Place was a great influence on me so I listened carefully for some console emulation on this version of the tune but nothing really seemed to present that sense of full on commitment I still hear when I listen to the more well known version.

I thought the guitar parts were tight and sounded original yet supportive of the tune. I assume that was you playing... it sounded real good.

The video seems like a power point presentation for Cakewalk. 

I thought the automation on what appears, to me, to be the kick drum was funny. It made me smile.

I thought the close up of the opto compressor was interesting; The meter is set to Gain Reduction while the meter looks like it's moving the other way. It's not... but that's what meter's look like when you use an opto compressor to squash the signal by 10+dB. Sweet! I do that too... but I've heard it's against the rules. :-) It wasn't clear, to me, what is getting squashed like that... but it sounds ok... yes? I think so. 

best regards,
mike

Just curious Mike, why was the kick automation funny?

John


Mike I think you should have PMed Mr. Anderton instead of posting on this thread. 

Nice video. 

Why?
 
His reply was ABOUT the video, which is probably more on the original topic than any of us here.

Very nice, as per usual,  but coulda used just a skosh more Mel O'Dyne.  Be glad to do it for ya. 

Bub


Hi Craig,

Can't listen to this right now, on my DAW and I have all Windows Sound services disabled.

There is a Song forum here just so you know ... this isn't really the place to post this.

;)

forum police always around the corner to try and control our use of the forum
great job buddy im listen to it now,
 bud this post was a nice change from the ,your sonar is better than my sonar, i read here everyday
just let it go man, does it realy matter wher is posted it.
 cus guess what all the folks who have a clue on how to mix master and record dont spend there time placing a post .
 if its in the wrong place the mods can move it, they get payed to police the forum, and you care why??
 this forum years ago was a blessing now its full of show offs and fanboy  crybaby's
 

yorolpal


Very nice, as per usual,  but coulda used just a skosh more Mel O'Dyne.  Be glad to do it for ya. 

bionic ear hears every flaw,melodyne to the rescue

Jonbouy

You have, given your position in the industry full awareness that many programs perform very well in doing what they are supposed to do without issue, some do it exceptionally well even given the complexities, which in many cases are much easier from a developer perspective to deal with than they were 15 years ago when you consider we all can have storage, processor power and memory to burn these days along with more unified support for developers on different platforms than in days of yore.  Some developers even manage to provide cross platform support, imagine that.  Identical behaviour on more than one OS, so it can't be because the technical stuff it TOO technical to be of any use surely.
 
It therefore makes me wonder your motivation for making comments like this when you are totally aware the complaints and causes for complaint are far more overwhelming here than they are most other places.  Most forums I visit you have to look pretty hard to replicate an issue someone is having, here they are pretty hard to avoid.  I'd say that was a huge difference that isn't covered by the populist comment that ALL software has issues.  Most products issues aren't the major feature they have been consistently seen to be here after the last few good years.

A couple things. First, regarding Mike's comment, in no way did I take that as any kind of negative criticism regarding anything I've done. I took it as free consulting about an article that should indeed be written, with much of the research already done for me


Now, regarding Jonbouy's comments regarding my "motivation" for commenting that technology has outstripped the ability of software engineers to cope, and that we would be seeing more systems dedicated to audio in the future, with a "you buy this system, we'll guarantee our software runs on it" kind of approach.


Hmmm...just like Pro Tools has been doing for many, many years  


First, because I do run a lot of programs, I have to say that reliability in comparison to Sonar in my work is a quantitative, not qualitative, difference. They all have problems. I just went to the Cubase 7 forum and here are the first few thread topics:


VST Connect & VST Connect SE - Solution Thread
Steinberg have plans to compile a Linux version of Cubase?
Peaking with no project loaded?
Do you rate Cubase 7 [in which one post said "do you mean 'rate' or 'hate'?"]
Working functions that changed to not work in C7
2:15 Minutes to Open Project?
Warp various tracks simultaneously
Process Plugin on Audio File / Cubase Crashes!
Export Realtime ---> DISK OVERLOAD
no independent send panning?
Where is the EQ Cruve in the Inspector?

Like Sonar, Cubase is a very ambitious program. The more ambitious, the more possibilities for problems. Look at the first few threads in NI's forums regarding Kontakt, too; it's not just DAWs.

I've often stated publicly that I've experienced two exceptions in terms of overall reliability. Ableton Live and Reason have been unusually reliable for me (although Live users certainly savaged the initial release of 8), which is why those are the only two programs I've ever used for live performance. I attribute this to three things. First, both companies do extensive public betas, so the programs get used on a huge variety of systems. Second, Reason's environment prohibits plug-ins other than rack extensions meeting their specs, and is rigidly controlled. Third, both companies have a very definite vision of the program's intentions, and do not include functionality that doesn't support that primary vision. Therefore they concentrate on perfecting a more limited set of core functionalities.

Studio One Pro is also very reliable for the core functions, but some of the details get dropped. 2.5 was almost all about tightening down the screws rather than adding a bunch of new features, which again, is consistent with their vision of the program.

Part of my "motivation" for making that statement is that (and I hope I'm wrong) I believe the situation is only going to get worse, and I feel people need to be aware of what appears to be a trend. In that sense, what I call "ambitious" programs are the canaries in the coal mine that give us insights into what happens when software becomes more complex, yet has to deal with increasingly complex hardware ecosystems.

Finally, as to the video not being MTV-friendly, that's a given. I mostly do "lyric videos" because after all, I'm posting the stuff on YouTube, so there needs to be some kind of visual component. I did the "Sonar video" for fun; people will either like the music or not, so the video is more like the bonus track on a CD. In this particular case and my posting the link here, I simply thought that people who use Sonar would get a kick out of seeing it used as the sole element in a video, and also, that it might serve as a springboard for discussion, like picking up on the "wrong" use of compression. And yes, automating a kick drum the way I did is kind of "not normal"
. 

I got a kick out of it. In a some what subliminal way it was also very funny. Title of song juxtaposed onto Sonar. Really very funny.   

Yeesh. This is a whole lotta angst over a smart dude posting a neat vid for us to enjoy.

+1 for the Eggman. Loves me some Burden.