munmun


I have heard that Midi implementation in Reaper isn't as good as Sonar.  remains to be seen.  Just hope it is intuitive with an easy learning curve.  Just want to make music.  Not have to contend with never ending crashes and computer maintenance issues.  

Release 4.33 of Reaper is supposed to have a lot of MIDI improvements and some stretch audio stuff  -HOWEVER- I wouldn't give up on Sonar just yet.  Cakewalk are "investigating what is going on".


Just speculation, but I expect something relatively soon.


Also, there is a big conceptual difference between Reaper and Sonar.  Pick your poison.

Bub

sharke

It does sound like Reaper has a much better design philosophy when it comes to handling plugin crashes etc...from what I've heard a plugin crash or incompatibility will not cause Reaper to hang, instead Reaper identifies the problem and resets the plug while remaining stable itself. Not sure how accurate that is, just going by comments I've read from others.

The VST thing I can confirm. I forget which VST I was using, but it crashed, Reaper put a message on the track that said it was not responding (or something to that effect), it reset the VST, and kept working. I didn't even have to close Reaper, it just kept chugging along like nothing happened after about 15 seconds.

I know it was the VST that crashed for two reasons, 1: Reaper told me it was this particular VST by name, and 2: It crashes all the time in Sonar. I always freeze immediately when I use it. I don't know for sure if it responds this way to all VST's when there is a problem, but I can confirm it did in this case. Another thing you can do is, there is a setting you can check off in Reaper to help make unstable VST's work better. I haven't tried it because, well ... it's never crashed or given me any problems.

If that is the case then Cakewalk should definitely look toward following that path, because I'm sure a lot of these crashes are to do with instability in 3rd party plugs taking Sonar down with them.

The VST I was using was one that comes with Sonar ... but I can't remember if it was one they did themselves or if it was one of the 3rd party ones they use.

Reaper supports VST3 ... maybe that has something to do with the fact that it was able to reset it like that?

I may be mistaken, but I believe VST3 is still a feature request in Reaper.

John

Reaper crashes as much as any other DAW.

Personally speaking, I have to say it does not in my experience. I've never had a crash in Reaper, and I've got a good 80 hours working time in it. IOW, actually usage, I'm not counting the hours it sits there doing nothing while I go grab some coffee or use the bathroom. I had 4 WSOD crashes in Sonar on Saturday alone and had to reboot. I was using Auto-Save, so I didn't lose hardly any work, so it's not as big a deal as if I hadn't had Auto-Save on, but it did happen nonetheless. I can honestly tell you, I've never had a crash in Reaper.

Reaper's MIDI is very good and is quite usable. Its not as mature as Sonar's but it can do much the same things except there is no Staff View, no Step Sequencer and the like.

Staff View, I can live without. If it was something I needed though, I'd go buy an actual program that does it right. But ... my beloved Step Sequencer 2.0, I cannot live without.  Midi seems to be pretty much the same in it as Sonar. Actually, I think Sonar is just now catching up to Reaper in that regard.

You can get 3rd party Step Sequencers for it, some free ... but nothing works like Sonar's SS2 for me. I'm so used to it.

Before the X versions of Sonar Reaper was a viable alternative to Sonar. With the Pro Channel and various other features there is no competition now.

That doesn't make any sense? 2 of the 3 offerings of Sonar that Cakewalk sells come without the Pro Channel. If the Pro Channel doesn't interest you, then Reaper is still a very viable contender. Especially with all the quality free VST's and synths out there now ... you could basically set yourself up with the equivalent of Sonar Studio for $60 bucks.

pbognar

Bub

sharke

It does sound like Reaper has a much better design philosophy when it comes to handling plugin crashes etc...from what I've heard a plugin crash or incompatibility will not cause Reaper to hang, instead Reaper identifies the problem and resets the plug while remaining stable itself. Not sure how accurate that is, just going by comments I've read from others.

The VST thing I can confirm. I forget which VST I was using, but it crashed, Reaper put a message on the track that said it was not responding (or something to that effect), it reset the VST, and kept working. I didn't even have to close Reaper, it just kept chugging along like nothing happened after about 15 seconds.

I know it was the VST that crashed for two reasons, 1: Reaper told me it was this particular VST by name, and 2: It crashes all the time in Sonar. I always freeze immediately when I use it. I don't know for sure if it responds this way to all VST's when there is a problem, but I can confirm it did in this case. Another thing you can do is, there is a setting you can check off in Reaper to help make unstable VST's work better. I haven't tried it because, well ... it's never crashed or given me any problems.

If that is the case then Cakewalk should definitely look toward following that path, because I'm sure a lot of these crashes are to do with instability in 3rd party plugs taking Sonar down with them.

The VST I was using was one that comes with Sonar ... but I can't remember if it was one they did themselves or if it was one of the 3rd party ones they use.

Reaper supports VST3 ... maybe that has something to do with the fact that it was able to reset it like that?

I may be mistaken, but I believe VST3 is still a feature request in Reaper.

Yeah, you are right. It does not support VST3.

My post is my opinion based on experience with the DAWs mentioned. Take it or leave it. You can't dispute it because its my view. You can hold any opinion you wish. 

John

My post is my opinion based on experience with the DAWs mentioned. Take it or leave it. You can't dispute it because its my view. You can hold any opinion you wish.

No dispute ... just stating my own opinion with some facts thrown in.

Right, Reaper does not support VST3.

And it definitely cooks with water, means it absolutely can crash and do odd stuff.

As for plugin handling:
It tries its best to handle plugin crashes gracefully and you can be lucky getting a crash and the host survives (to my knowledge Sonar tries that as well), but many plugin crashes will still drag the host and maybe the audio driver with it, just like in any other DAW. If you don't take extra steps, of which there are some.

There are some extra compatibility modes the user can choose for misbehaving plugins which are working pretty well, using some security measures like zeroing out buffers before giving them to the plug, extra samples at loop edges and such. These modes helps a lot with sloppy coded plugins already (but wouldn't prevent Reaper to crash if a plugin crashes anyway in an ugly kind of way).

Another method to cope with crash prone plugins is very useful, and maybe something to consider implementing in Sonar (if there isn't something like that already): you can run problematic plugins in dedicated processes, so that they can't drag the host down when they crash, but only its own process (they can still take the audio driver down, so you have to restart, but as the host is still alive, the situation loses much of the horror). Because running separate processes taxes the cpu a bit this is not done automatically or for every plugin. You have to set it yourself on a per-plugin basis if you have a plugin of which you know it will occasionally crash, but you like it so much that you want to use it anyway (btw, this mode was also cool in the 32bit world, as it allowed the plugin to access it's extra share of RAM).

Saying this not to tout Reaper here, just to prevent myth spreading. Reaper doesn't do magic, just stuff every host can consider to implement.

That is very intereseting frankandfree.

 I believe the new Cubase claims to have a new scheme in place to quasi-isolate vsts so the whole daw won't be taken down by a rogue plugin.

Sonar is fine for producing music and creating music. No worse than anything else really.


Always download a demo and see whether you and your system fit with it first.


Computers crash, software crashes. They always have and they always will. Some more than others. A fact of life.


Don't like sonar x2? Move on to something else as stop hanging around like a floating turd that refuses to flush.


Fact is no one really gives a flying toss what anyone uses when push comes to a shove. 


These threads are a good laugh though for a relative newb me. It is pure pantomime . Ohhhhhh no it isn't......,,, ooohhhh yes it is !!!

backwoods


That is very intereseting frankandfree.

I believe the new Cubase claims to have a new scheme in place to quasi-isolate vsts so the whole daw won't be taken down by a rogue plugin.

I think that would be a great band name: Rogue Plugin.


Bob Bone