Lourdo
So far in sonar, what I've seen as far as midi groove processing is : 1) groove templates (destructive, and very limited as far as usage) 2) input quantizing, so nothing magical here 3) straight quantizing... not a fan of it, especially within a vst context, where it gets rigid very quickly, even at moderate settings... take a lot of time to get proper results. Am I missing something? 

Am I totally missing what you're looking for(?) cuz most answers you've gotten so far just confuses me..

For playing around (non-destructively) with midi-clips you've got the MIDI-plugin Quantize.
(Right click on the MIDI-track's FX-bin to use it on the whole track or right click a clip and choose:
Insert Effect -> Midi Effects -> Cakewalk Effects -> Quantize to use with an individual MIDI-clip)
Here you've got settings such as strength, swing, randomizer, offset.. 

You can also use the step sequencer if you want different settings for each note. In there you see an icon that looks like a play-button on the left of each row. Press that one and you'll get settings like swing, flam and some other things in there. Also non-destructive, of course.

Swiller

you are not missing anything. Such quick features simply do not exist in sonar. 

just because you haven't found them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Swiller
Sonar is more about learning to program it via menus. Most of it is all possible, but requires menu diving instead of common functions being available in edit windows. A good example is the way that a double click of a standard audio clip is pretty much a useless thing to do. You would expect to be able to call up transients, slice up a loop  into 16 parts, quantize to snap.

You can do all that in sonar, but it involves more lengthy processes. 

"You would expect" ? .. Aren't expectations based on each individual's earlier experiences? Just because you expect something doesn't make it a standard-expectation. Choose your words.. 

But, well.. Maybe it's just me that totally have misunderstood the meaning of the word menu?
Spliting a clip into slices: 

• Selecting "Audio Transients" instead of "Clips" on the track 
• Press A to get the AudioSnap-window 
• Adjusting the Filter->Treshold until you've got the the slices you want 
• Click the Scissors -icon at the top of the window 
• All done 

Can you please point out where the menu gets involved?
And also; In Sonar almost everything can be assigned to a keyboard short-cut
Besides.. You don't need to slice the clip to quantize to snap in Sonar though..
This Sonar does non-destructively with audio-snap.

Swiller
Similarly the prv (traditional piano midi editor) is only a track editor , not a clip editor.

So if you double click a midi clip to edit whilst the track is playing, it will scroll off the screen

once the clip part has passed/or you wont see the clips notes if the track is playing before or after 

the clip. Demo it and see how you get on. 

This is also untrue. As soon you start ediding MIDI the pianoroll stops scrolling. 
Also, if you've choosed to use Step Sequencer for the clip it will never scroll.. 

edit:
Please.. Do the research before replying and if you're not sure; say so or don't answer
Spreading misinformations helps noone

just because you haven't found them doesn't mean they don't exist.

 
Yes i get that..  So where are these intuitive interfaces then that the op is requesting??  Where is the sonar regroove realtime mixer?



"You would expect" ? .. Aren't expectations based on each individual's earlier experiences? Just because you expect something doesn't make it a standard-expectation. Choose your words..


I seem to have annoyed you.  These are desirable things for many people working with audio and midi and are very popular feautures of other daws/programs.

But, well.. Maybe it's just me that totally have misunderstood the meaning of the word menu?
Spliting a clip into slices:

• Selecting "Audio Transients" instead of "Clips" on the track
• Press A to get the AudioSnap-window
• Adjusting the Filter->Treshold until you've got the the slices you want
• Click the Scissors -icon at the top of the window
• All done

Can you please point out where the menu gets involved?

 
Menus/windows whatever.  Point is , why not just have all of that when you open up a clip and edit it to hand?   An built in audio editor would be beneficial  is the point.  forkul for one seems to agree and i suspect the op will agree if he demos the product.

And also; In Sonar almost everything can be assigned to a keyboard short-cut
 
 
All major daws do shortcuts and is not a sonar exclusive feature.
Besides.. You don't need to slice the clip to quantize to snap in Sonar though..
This Sonar does non-destructively with audio-snap.

And your point is?

Swiller
Similarly the prv (traditional piano midi editor) is only a track editor , not a clip editor.

So if you double click a midi clip to edit whilst the track is playing, it will scroll off the screen

once the clip part has passed/or you wont see the clips notes if the track is playing before or after

the clip. Demo it and see how you get on.

This is also untrue. As soon you start ediding MIDI the pianoroll stops scrolling. 
Also, if you've choosed to use Step Sequencer for the clip it will never scroll..


 If you have a 40 bar midi sequence looped. Chop the first four bars and double click it whilst playing. Then grab and hold a few notes in prv view whilst the track plays and it will scroll off the page and the selected notes will follow the scroll by default. John has pointed out the extra steps that are required to stop the scrolling  from happening. It does not stop scrolling when you start to edit notes as you have claimed. Many would see that as an unecessary step in workflow and an annoying feature.
 
edit:
Please.. Do the research before replying and if you're not sure; say so or don't answer
Spreading misinformations helps noone

 
 Practice what you preach. This is a forum and i can contribute opinions on what i want when i want thankyou very much. I dont think i am being offensive or misinformed and make relevant points as to the ops original question. My contributions are based on absolute experiences of working with sonar for a few years and producing music for 15+ years in other daws and programs including reason and the regroove functionality that the op was talking about.  If that annoys you.... then tough :)

Second the ReWire thought and would add to it that Live can also be ReWired.

It occurs to me that some of the OPs original thoughts can be quite a challange in Sonar. On the other hand I haven't been able to figure out how to do a simple cross-fade in Live...so it seems to me that each product has it's own strengths.

Regards,

John


Swiller you are mistaken about almost everything. Before one comments on a product it helps if the person knows how the product works.

 
 
I dont think i am mistaken, nor a complete novice as to how sonar and other production software works.  You could argue that if you havent used reasons regroove interface as referenced by the op, you may want to take your own advice as well - re knowing how the product works. But i think its good to have a variety of opinions from a number of users with different experiences.  
Yes i get the loop construction view as well of course. An audio editor in its place would be way more useful to me at least and i suspect the op would as well was the point. The op is considering buying sonar and therefore should be aware of some of the things that he may assume are all included as par for the course and dead easy to use. I am not alone judging by some replies on this thread.
 
The scroll lock thing is helpful thanks.   I still cant understand why editing a midi clip, it scrolls past that clip by default whilst playing. This is not a feature in other daws and i cannot see the benefits of the PRV continually scrolling be default vs keeping a clip visible in the editing pane.
 
But thanks for the workaround. Quite obvious windows functionality when i think about it.  It is a shame that once back in track view, you have to re disable the scroll lock to get the arrangement scrolling again. But thats the price for using global  windows functionality i guess.
 
S
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

guys.i think we know better,lets just let it be.

Anderton


Actually there are a couple options.

1. ReWire!! Reason and Sonar make a great combination. Just treat Reason like a super rack of instruments working within Sonar. OctoRex, Kong...they're all great with Sonar.

2. The RXP REX File player. This seems to be a really well-kept secret, but it's fabulous. I'm not sure if it does exactly what you want, but here's how it works...you drag a REX file into it, and you can either loop the file or slice it. When sliced, you can play each slice in real time from a keyboard if you're into on-the-fly re-arranging, BUT you can also drag a MIDI file from the RXP player into Sonar, with each slice represented by a MIDI note (just like Reason). Then you can go into MIDI and mess around with the notes, jumble them around, overdub by playing slices from the keyboard, whatever.

But wait! There's more!! There's a multi-mode filter and amplitude envelope that applies globally to the slices, and all RXP parameters are automable. Also, you can transpose plus and minuse four octaves, tweak tuning in cents, and there's a cool random pitch function that can really add interest to percussion parts. So, you can lay down stuff on the fly, but then go back and tweak the slice's audio parameters.
  
Of course, if you're into Maschine or MPC, you can trigger the slices from the pads; you're not limited to using a keyboard.

wow craig that is auesome man.
ive wanted to dive in to RXP a little more because its kinda one of those gold mines hidden within sonar.
maybe not something i would use for everyday work but really a cool program.
 
thanks for the tips.

Swiller

John


Swiller you are mistaken about almost everything. Before one comments on a product it helps if the person knows how the product works.

 
 
I dont think i am mistaken, nor a complete novice as to how sonar and other production software works.  You could argue that if you havent used reasons regroove interface as referenced by the op, you may want to take your own advice as well - re knowing how the product works. But i think its good to have a variety of opinions from a number of users with different experiences.  
Yes i get the loop construction view as well of course. An audio editor in its place would be way more useful to me at least and i suspect the op would as well was the point. The op is considering buying sonar and therefore should be aware of some of the things that he may assume are all included as par for the course and dead easy to use. I am not alone judging by some replies on this thread.
 
The scroll lock thing is helpful thanks.   I still cant understand why editing a midi clip, it scrolls past that clip by default whilst playing. This is not a feature in other daws and i cannot see the benefits of the PRV continually scrolling be default vs keeping a clip visible in the editing pane.
 
But thanks for the workaround. Quite obvious windows functionality when i think about it.  It is a shame that once back in track view, you have to re disable the scroll lock to get the arrangement scrolling again. But thats the price for using global  windows functionality i guess.
 
S
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Swiller I'm a Sonar user not a Reason user. There is no reason for me to use Reason or for me to learn it. Its preposterous to suggest that I should.  After rereading this thread I am beginning to think these questions are only meant to cause conflict. The questioners don't seem to want to learn Sonar at all. Rather they try to confuse the thread.

Also I'm wondering why you disregard what I am saying in how to do the things the OP is asking to do. 

This will be the last posting from me on this thread.
   

what i dont understand is the op said hes thinking of choosing either logic,cubase or sonar.

please tell me if im wrong but is he really confused about the difference in a MAC and a PC ?

logic wont run on a PC

its a MAC program.

forgive me if im wrong and you do know that.
you just didnt mention you use both MAC and PC.

Conar


I think the op is talking about these kind of manipulations: 
http://youtu.be/vrb6WbX9K3s

Why can't we do such basic operations in realtime with truly musical and USABLE results in  Sonar, to THIS DAY?

What is basic about that?  its funny people have been making music with Sonar for many years now. Far longer than Studio One has been around yet you find nothing good about Sonar. 

I respectfully suggest you read the manual or if it can't be done in Sonar submit a feature request.

Are you here promoting Studio One? 

1. ReWire!! Reason and Sonar make a great combination. Just treat Reason like a super rack of instruments working within Sonar. OctoRex, Kong...they're all great with Sonar.

 
I'd agree with that, with the proviso that there is a strong likelihood of running into strange problems when using looped sections with Sonar being the rewire host. (True up until the end of X1's life but may have been fixed subsequently, you'd have to check that with someone that's using X2 rewired for the latest)
 
Those problems have been mentioned here regularly, and have existed since at least Sonar 7 (when I first purchased Sonar) and a search will bring them up if you want futher details of the various difficulties various folks have had with that.
 
Aside from that there's no need to move from one to the other the strength there is you get the benefits inherent in both apps.  I started out using Sonar with Reason just acting like some mega multi-purpose VST via Rewire, since Reason has introduced audio capability I use it for more tasks than I did before (i.e take lanes there are more fully implemented than they are in Sonar X2 so I tend to use it for tracking instead of Sonar now) but certainly they still make great companions and you'll have more scope using Sonar as an addition rather than a replacement.
 
You won't bother with RXP either if you do that as OctoRex is similar to having 8 instances of RXP available from a single instance.  Groove quantise and groove clips are the nearest thing to ReGroove Sonar has to offer but they don't have that real time flexibility the ReGroove has but you'll get those benefits when you are Rewired.