John T


You know, you couldn't have a better illustration of the jerkoff attitude that underlies this stuff than fwrend's stuff above suggesting everyone else in the store apart from him is a "kool aid drinker". Funny how he's in the same store with same products, but he's somehow smarter than everyone else. I'll tell you what runs it a close second though, and that's Sharke's claim to know for a fact that people en masse are indulging in some kind of political hypocrisy over Apple. Jaysus. Get over yourselves, chaps.

There is no better illustration of a "jerkoff attitude" then calling someone else a jerkoff without actually addressing their arguments. I think I made a fair point. Apple remained a "hip" brand all throughout the scandal of people being worked into suicide to make their parts. 

John T


I mean, if you work with some actual real-life berks who actually do this, go and take it up with them. How many people are you talking about here? Four? Five? Ten?

I have taken it up with people, on multiple occasions. I either get crickets or swift evasions. 

I think John T is spot on. If all of us held ourselves to the absolute moral standard that seems to appear whenever a particular company is the designated bad guy of the moment, we would buy nothing but handcrafted goods made from local certified labor using nothing but parts and raw materials somehow guaranteed to be free from exploitative practices. All of us to some degree or another is a "kool aid drinker", we just exercise a form of doublethink (yes, I'm an Orwell fan) that tells us that our thoughts are simply "the facts" as compared to the other guys who are clearly "drinking the kool aid".

btw, i meant spot on as far as the whole "smarter than the rest" portion. The whole jerkoff thing was mostly ignored by me.

sharke, it is my opinion that "hip brands" are rarely affected by such things no matter what the demographic of the crowd that makes them hip. Regardless of Apple's practices they will remain a hip brand until they are no longer hip. It certainly won't change due to practices that are common among large companies. It's very similar to how we treat celebrities. I could list for days celebrities who have done horrible things but seemingly got a pass. Case in point, Kobe Bryant may have raped a woman and at the least he cheated on his wife. If he had been nobody he would have likely at least went on trial for rape and public opinion would likely be mostly against him. Since he is a huge star, the alleged victim got death threats and people who do not know him still defend him relentlessly. His jersey sales are always in the top 10 and he earns well over 40 million a year in endorsements.

dubdisciple


I think John T is spot on. If all of us held ourselves to the absolute moral standard that seems to appear whenever a particular company is the designated bad guy of the moment, we would buy nothing but handcrafted goods made from local certified labor using nothing but parts and raw materials somehow guaranteed to be free from exploitative practices. All of us to some degree or another is a "kool aid drinker", we just exercise a form of doublethink (yes, I'm an Orwell fan) that tells us that our thoughts are simply "the facts" as compared to the other guys who are clearly "drinking the kool aid".

I totally agree, my point was that the kind of people who think we should boycott such companies, remained largely silent when the same focus was put on Apple. 

sharke, I agree with you in principal. I just think humans are naturally hypocritical when it comes to such things. You could easily Apple for damn near any product if you dig deep enough into it's practices. I'm sure just like most of us rationalize or go the route of willful ignorance, Apple owners find a way to reconcile their lack of action. It's like reading the ingredients on food. If you bother to do so, you are going to be really disgusted and face the dilemma of eating right through your disgust or finding a way to put it out of your mind. I have met people who simply cannot ignore the fact that most of what we consume is likely contributing to the suffering of others and the [painful reality of that thought makes them borderline insane.

sharke

John T


I'm curious about this idea that Apple somehow get away with bad business practices that others don't. Because exactly the opposite is true. Pretty much every news report you read about the horrible conditions at Foxxconn refers to them as an Apple manufacturer. But in actual fact, Foxxconn make stuff for everyone. They're close to impossible to avoid if you've got any kind of consumer electronics.

I didn't say that the media lets Apple get away with bad business practices. Of course they report it. My point was that despite these reports, Apple's image among the kind of young progressive types who normally speak out against such things wasn't tainted at all. Of course this says more about the general hypocrisy and moral inconsistencies of those who flaunt their ideological colors only when it suits them. 

Amen to that, brother. 

I wouldn't give you a nickel for most who call themselves progressive.. because they ain't. Sorta like most who call themselves libertarians - they ain't either.

Here's something to be put into perspective: Look at the Volkswagen Beetle. Ferdinand Porche was ordered by Adolf Hitler to built "The people's car", the Volkswagen. He was obviously a notorious tyrannic bad guy to much of the world at the time, but today, the "Beetle" has gained popularity to no end, and is quite sought after. Once it had a bad name, now it has a great name. 

Same goes with Neumann and Telefunken. We love those mics dearly, yet these were designed for and used by the German Empire in the 1940's and such. 

So, is it with Apple and Dell (and Microsoft). They do compete, but none of them are as horrid as the Third Reich! In fact, some people (developers) move from one company to another. It's all in the pudding. They learn their lessons (hopefully).

If it works and works for you, use it to YOUR advantage. If you "like" one thing or another, that's awesome! We have choices and can change our minds. We do live in a greater time, I think.

political labels are funny. Most people I know pick the label they think sounds good, but typically violate the ever shifting core tenants of said position all the time. My ultra liberal tree hugging friend had no trouble finding an exception to her opposition to the death penalty for a particular child murderer. My former Glen Beck loving, tea partying boss is suddenly warming to aspects of Obamacare after receiving a huge medical bill. The massive levels of hypocrisy it takes to attempt 100% adherence to most ideologies is most likely to lead to eventual cognitive dissonance.