I really don't have a dog in this fight at all. But this is just completely wrong. Apple created the second desktop GUI system *ever* made, and the first to be commercially sold, in the Lisa, in 1982. And the first mass market one, in the Mac in 1984. They also created the first successful mass market personal computer in the Apple II, in 1977. Microsoft started out as a company that made Apple II software. I'm not really interested in who's best or any of that, but it's just historically inaccurate to say it's all just marketing and they never created anything.

How is mass marketing creating anything except a market? The GUI was invented by Xerox as was the mouse. Personal computers were around before Apple even existed. 

Marketing is not the same as inventing. The fact that they took off the shelf parts and bundled them as a somewhat complete product should make it clear. Where were the parts going to before Apple got hold of them?  

I dunno, I can't really be bothered arguing this one. If you think something like the Lisa was just a matter of shoving a load of components in a box and doing a nice advertising campaign, you just plain don't know what you're talking about.

John T


I dunno, I can't really be bothered arguing this one. If you think something like the Lisa was just a matter of shoving a load of components in a box and doing a nice advertising campaign, you just plain don't know what you're talking about.

I didn't say anything about the Lisa which failed. Clearly they didn't steal or copy enough from others to make it work well enough to get anyone to buy it.

John T I don't know why I got into this except I do have a hard spot for anything Apple. Sorry man. That hard spot got the better of me. I should make it clear I really don't care about what happens to Apple. 

For one, I see Apple needing to get knocked down a couple of pegs in the same manner that Microsoft got so concern their behavior as a corporation. I'm no MS fanboy, never have been, and always took delight whenever they got caught with their dirty laundry in public. Apple, however, always got a pass from the brickbats because they were second-bannana and if their fanboys enjoyed grabbing their ankles, we figured why not let Apple let them have it - they deserve it.

But now, Apple is simply trying to muscle other companies in the same fashion MS used to. The law is for sale here in the US to the highest corporate bidder - but I'm figuring that at some point EU is going to get tired of all the (patently) ridiculous patents coming from here. It's like if you can't invent something substantial, troll 'em with patent threats. US businesses like Apple are worried - we're sinking into a service model economy, but business here wants to keep the same profits as before with a reduced labor and material outlay, but it won't work. 

This is why apple isn't so hot outside of the US - they ain't buying the marketing hype and the value doesn't match the price. Fondleslabs and iphones aren't going to be the in-thing forever, and Apple's PC's are a bit bereft these days...

Apple's last quarter revenues were the highest they've ever had, you know.

Apple products are great.
Microsoft products are great.

You guys...are great :)

One thing that I have noticed that a lot of people who use Apple products are usually educated, make good money and think of themselves as progressive politically, but Apple is making all this money off those people and employing very few Americans in the process.

I find this disgusting and hard to accept.

sincerely,

dan le

Apple have just moved a chunk of their manufacturing back to the US as it happens. Most of the iMacs are now put together in the US.