Somehow this issue of stable DAWs needs to be put to rest, but what is the answer?. There isn't a single DAW out there without a forum full of people posting issues. At least I know of none. My experience with Sonar started with 8.5 Studio up to X2. Untill the X2 version I didn't experience any issues that stopped me from being able to continue working on a project. In fact I could say it was very stable and I was very happy.
 
My desktop is dedicated for DAW and video. For whatever the reason with the same exact hardware, software etc. X2, (not x2 quickfix or X2a) has given me issues that literaly prevented me from even opening the application. (crash on Open) among other crazy things. (See my other posts) I re-imaged my pc 4 times..count them 4. If that's not trying nothing is. I also bought new hardware, Focusrite Saffire 24 pro, a new FW card with Ti chip. My original FW card had a via which is a recommended chipset, and a gigabyte Gforce video card because I read that ther were issues with some intel on board video.
 
In any case even with some serious frustrations and even considering moving on to another DAw I realize that there is no where to run as I thought, well what issues am I going to have with PT, Digital 8 Studio one etc.? After checking the forums for those DAWs I realized that the best place to be is here. I demo'd PT and Studio one and though I like some things about them but I think for me 8.53, X1 and X2 have the best design for easy use. I still have X2 issues but I minimized them some by only having X2 without the quickfix and X2a patches. Actually I did install the quickfix but it did nothing.
 
I'm sure like me, many of you have experienced issues with applications even after a windows update so I think it's hit or miss. The luck of the draw. If you find your running with no problems then think twice about installing any update or upgrade.
I want to remove X2 and install X1 to see if I'll be back to stability again but I'm so tired of troubleshooting. It would be easier to buy another pc and run it on that. I don't know. I'm just getting tired of troubleshooting and the DAW battle.

This is the best stable daw. http://www.primestables.c...edium/stable-door-.jpg

Mosvalve


It would be easier to buy another pc and run it on that. I don't know.

This might be the best and fastest solution, really.

Mosvalve


Somehow this issue of stable DAWs needs to be put to rest, but what is the answer?. There isn't a single DAW out there without a forum full of people posting issues. At least I know of none. My experience with Sonar started with 8.5 Studio up to X2. Untill the X2 version I didn't experience any issues that stopped me from being able to continue working on a project. In fact I could say it was very stable and I was very happy.
 
My desktop is dedicated for DAW and video. For whatever the reason with the same exact hardware, software etc. X2, (not x2 quickfix or X2a) has given me issues that literaly prevented me from even opening the application. (crash on Open) among other crazy things. (See my other posts) I re-imaged my pc 4 times..count them 4. If that's not trying nothing is. I also bought new hardware, Focusrite Saffire 24 pro, a new FW card with Ti chip. My original FW card had a via which is a recommended chipset, and a gigabyte Gforce video card because I read that ther were issues with some intel on board video.
 
In any case even with some serious frustrations and even considering moving on to another DAw I realize that there is no where to run as I thought, well what issues am I going to have with PT, Digital 8 Studio one etc.? After checking the forums for those DAWs I realized that the best place to be is here. I demo'd PT and Studio one and though I like some things about them but I think for me 8.53, X1 and X2 have the best design for easy use. I still have X2 issues but I minimized them some by only having X2 without the quickfix and X2a patches. Actually I did install the quickfix but it did nothing.
 
I'm sure like me, many of you have experienced issues with applications even after a windows update so I think it's hit or miss. The luck of the draw. If you find your running with no problems then think twice about installing any update or upgrade.
I want to remove X2 and install X1 to see if I'll be back to stability again but I'm so tired of troubleshooting. It would be easier to buy another pc and run it on that. I don't know. I'm just getting tired of troubleshooting and the DAW battle.

Good points, Bob. One thing to keep in mind though...if you tried PT on Windows, that's a huge issue right there. No one I know has had any results with the Windows version including myself. Put it on MAC...totally different animal even though I simply don't like PT. I also think a lot of issues with Sonar stem from running resources. Where some DAW programs can still work well while you use your pc as an internet machine, Sonar doesn't always like that. The less running processes, the better. Also, if someone can build a dedicated box strictly for studio use, they stand an even better chance of not having as many issues.
 
I've been very fortunate. My Sonar issues haven't been show-stoppers and I feel quite blessed to have the power I have with it. That said, there ARE things that I feel need to be fixed. Certain things in other programs are more to my liking that seem to be "standard" with every other DAW program but Sonar. I don't think we need to keep up with anyone, but there are certain things that I feel should be as industry standard as midi.
 
There are times Sonar crashes where you don't even get a chance to save. I don't remember this happening in 8.0 and 8.5. That faded white screen we get now never showed up before for me. Maybe that has to do with how Windows 7 crashes....but when I would crash before in other versions of Sonar that supported "save your @ss" crash saves, it always gave me a chance. I too got tired of the DAW troubleshooting game which is why I had a system built for me by Jim Roseberry. I also really feel these guys that build dedicated systems for recording are onto something.
 
They don't totally stop crashes, but they eliminate 80% of your issues because when you buy a system like that, you normally keep it off the net, aren't downloading and installing the same crap you'd put on an everyday net box, and at times, you don't even update your OS because the thing just works and is never on the net. Updates have been the death of me. I never got a crash until I started doing Windows updates and all the crap that goes with them. The first crash I ever got on my Roseberry box was after a Windows 7 update that sent my machine in a loop to where it hung and needed a restore point to fix it. I must have 10 "Framework" 3.5 and 4.0 etc in add/remove programs and a bunch of other crap that could be causing problems. You just never know.
 
That said, some of the things that happen in Sonar do not happen in the other DAW programs I use. Why that is, I have no clue...but at times, it really does get old and horribly frustrating. But with that in mind, I still keep going back to Sonar because I really do love it. I just wish it was a little more trustworthy to where my left hand wasn't stuck in a state of ctrl+s.
 
All programs have their share of issues, but in my realm it seems some of the others have less or close to no issues compared to what I have in Sonar as well as WHAT I have to do to my system to make Sonar run effectively. For example, we all know the stuff we're supposed to do to make Sonar run correctly. We know how to make clicks and pops go away, how to tweak certain things within the program, how to get a little more out of it etc. I have honestly never had to do that with the other 2 programs I use as alternatives. I've never tweaked a single thing in any of their audio preferences other than adjusting my ASIO buffers...and in one of them, you can do it on the fly while audio is actually playing! Anyway, there will always be a little trial and error with this stuff no matter what you use...but there are a few things that I've used personally that require less with less to no crashing. The problem there is, the features aren't as rich nor are they as appealing or intuitive. Always a grey/gray area, ya know? :) 
  
-Danny

Swiller


This is the best stable daw. http://www.primestables.c...edium/stable-door-.jpg

Loolz. 

Danny Danzi

Good points, Bob. One thing to keep in mind though...if you tried PT on Windows, that's a huge issue right there. No one I know has had any results with the Windows version including myself. Put it on MAC...totally different animal even though I simply don't like PT. I also think a lot of issues with Sonar stem from running resources.

Someone posted an article earlier, can't find the thread now, there is a version of Sonar for Mac coming. The article was written a few months ago.

It makes me wonder how with all the bugs. Historically, or so I've been told since the dawn of Mac, that it is the most stable platform and it is incredibly rare to have a bug in the software, let alone one that isn't fixed quickly.

I'm curious to see how this goes down if it's true. That was the first I ever heard of Sonar for Mac.

Where some DAW programs can still work well while you use your pc as an internet machine, Sonar doesn't always like that. The less running processes, the better. Also, if someone can build a dedicated box strictly for studio use, they stand an even better chance of not having as many issues.

One thing I recently did, thanks goes to Sharke for suggesting the separate user account thing that led me to this ... is ... I completely disabled Windows Sound Service. I'm not talking about going in to sound settings and muting everything, I'm talking about going in to Msconfig and disabling it so it never loads period.

Since I've done that I have to admit I see a vast improvement in performance on my system. It must be a real resource hog.

What sucks about it is, I only have audio out of Sonar now, so if I want to hop on u toob or listen to an MP3 outside of Sonar, I can't do it. And the other problem is the midi ports won't work on my Fast Track Ultra unless Windows Sound System is running. It's ok, I rarely use my keyboard, but it's still odd that I have audio via my FTU via Sonar, but it can't see the midi ports. Just an FYI in case anyone tries to disable Windows Sound Service.

Bub

Danny Danzi

Good points, Bob. One thing to keep in mind though...if you tried PT on Windows, that's a huge issue right there. No one I know has had any results with the Windows version including myself. Put it on MAC...totally different animal even though I simply don't like PT. I also think a lot of issues with Sonar stem from running resources.

Someone posted an article earlier, can't find the thread now, there is a version of Sonar for Mac coming. The article was written a few months ago.

It makes me wonder how with all the bugs. Historically, or so I've been told since the dawn of Mac, that it is the most stable platform and it is incredibly rare to have a bug in the software, let alone one that isn't fixed quickly.

I'm curious to see how this goes down if it's true. That was the first I ever heard of Sonar for Mac.

Where some DAW programs can still work well while you use your pc as an internet machine, Sonar doesn't always like that. The less running processes, the better. Also, if someone can build a dedicated box strictly for studio use, they stand an even better chance of not having as many issues.

One thing I recently did, thanks goes to Sharke for suggesting the separate user account thing that led me to this ... is ... I completely disabled Windows Sound Service. I'm not talking about going in to sound settings and muting everything, I'm talking about going in to Msconfig and disabling it so it never loads period.

Since I've done that I have to admit I see a vast improvement in performance on my system. It must be a real resource hog.

What sucks about it is, I only have audio out of Sonar now, so if I want to hop on u toob or listen to an MP3 outside of Sonar, I can't do it. And the other problem is the midi ports won't work on my Fast Track Ultra unless Windows Sound System is running. It's ok, I rarely use my keyboard, but it's still odd that I have audio via my FTU via Sonar, but it can't see the midi ports. Just an FYI in case anyone tries to disable Windows Sound Service.

Bub, that's really strange. Would you believe I use both my Realtek and my real cards on my systems? I of course don't have ASIO4ALL on the good boxes, but the Realteks are used for basic Windows sounds and mp3's. If I were to jump on Youtube or something, I'd have no problems with the sounds playing through my Realtek. Open Sonar, or any other audio program, and my Layla, Profire or RME takes over.
 
Maybe you just need a new interface? Something like the Echo Profire 8 or the RME FF 400...then get a little MOTU 2x2 midi port for like $50. The MOTU is awesome for midi. I'd not be caught using anything else midi wise. I've been using their stuff for midi since Windows 95 and have of course since updated to the latest stuff. Not a single hiccup with anything MOTU for midi. For audio, I've had quite a time with the MOTU stuff. I had that 24x24 a few years back...killer system, nothing but problems.
 
Anyway, I'm glad you're seeing some improvements.....God knows you sure deserve to. :)
 
-Danny

Bub

One thing I recently did, thanks goes to Sharke for suggesting the separate user account thing that led me to this ... is ... I completely disabled Windows Sound Service. I'm not talking about going in to sound settings and muting everything, I'm talking about going in to Msconfig and disabling it so it never loads period.

Since I've done that I have to admit I see a vast improvement in performance on my system. It must be a real resource hog.

What sucks about it is, I only have audio out of Sonar now, so if I want to hop on u toob or listen to an MP3 outside of Sonar, I can't do it. And the other problem is the midi ports won't work on my Fast Track Ultra unless Windows Sound System is running. It's ok, I rarely use my keyboard, but it's still odd that I have audio via my FTU via Sonar, but it can't see the midi ports. Just an FYI in case anyone tries to disable Windows Sound Service.

Can't you just set Sonar to share your interface with other programs? Or am I not understanding something here. I don't see how you could get sounds in Sonar but not from other apps. 

All programs have their share of issues, but in my realm it seems some of the others have less or close to no issues compared to what I have in Sonar as well as WHAT I have to do to my system to make Sonar run effectively. For example, we all know the stuff we're supposed to do to make Sonar run correctly. We know how to make clicks and pops go away, how to tweak certain things within the program, how to get a little more out of it etc. I have honestly never had to do that with the other 2 programs I use as alternatives. I've never tweaked a single thing in any of their audio preferences other than adjusting my ASIO buffers...and in one of them, you can do it on the fly while audio is actually playing! Anyway, there will always be a little trial and error with this stuff no matter what you use...but there are a few things that I've used personally that require less with less to no crashing. The problem there is, the features aren't as rich nor are they as appealing or intuitive. Always a grey/gray area, ya know? :)

 
 
Someone had posted somethng regarding C++ and how Sonar is Microsoft dependant or something to that affect and may be why there are more issues than there should be. I know I have like several Microsoft Visual C++ redistributable versions loaded. 2005 ,2008, 2010 etc. I have to assume most applications rely on C++ in some form or another. I believe the question was what is the problem, the OS or the application? I don't think there's a workaround for applications since they have to work with the OS.  I'm not a programmer so I haven't a clue. Only your programmer will know for sure...

I've always used an on-board sound card/device as a sort of decoy, assigning it to take care of Windows sounds, run Media player etc with it's own dedicated speaker system/s.

then for SONAR or any other DAW (I use/d a few) I use my FF800's or my SL 2442 running ASIO drivers through their dedicated speaker systems. Never really had a problem caused by that sort of arrangement.

I'm in agreement with Danny Danzi when it comes to that point as well as the general fragility of SONAR compared to other DAWs with which I've had significant experience. Esp with the X variant of SONAR I too have seen my fair share of the white screen lock up, system not responding sort of thing.

Upto and including SONAR 8.5 an errant driver would occasionally cause a BSOD but I'm talking rarely during the course of many years.

Now that I'm retired I have the luxury of not being publicly embarrassed by any software issues occurring in front of clients but my heart goes out to those guys dealing with this stuff on a daily basis.

X2 has thus far been stable for me and its quite snappy -  certainly more than X1 of any flavour was, but there are many for whom X1 was stable and now have issues with X2; go figure. And I'm talking on the same computer as in my case.

Where the answer lies I'm not really sure, but just before my health forced retirement I was about going crazy trying to get X1 working in my spare time while working fulltime in 8.53. Once X1c brought some stability my retirement and future had been remapped.

Had I not retired and no longer needed to maintain what I call stability I dare say I would have either stuck with 8.53 or gone to a full Pro Tools HD rig maybe even on a MAC. Thankfully, retirement allowed me to bypass that sort of decision and the investment in time and money that would have taken.

In a few months my new home will be finished being built and my dedicated studio space can start to  be made ready I will continue to work with SONAR because of my familiarity with it but if I take on any commissions I'm not sure yet what my DAW of choice will be. Time will tell. Maybe by then I'll be on WIN 8 and a further patch for X2 will put any stability debate beyond discussion. In the meantime I'll keep plugging away and reading this forum with interest.