Agreed, and a nice way to do that is to add a compressor to the tracks that are "in the way" and sidechain from the kick drum.  This will let you reduces those levels for the duration of the kick and let it punch through.


Cheers


Grif

ed97643


Best bet is to REMOVE the other sonics from the spectrum that the bass drum should "own". So do cuts in the bass synth, pad synths, etc. to allow the bass drum to occupy that sonic space alone. (Do not think - "how do I PUSH this track even more" - think, "how do I REMOVE from other tracks" - there will be the ticket.)

Setting up a low frequency Sine wave on a track and using the existing kick to key a gate via it's sidechain is also a good way of beefing up a kick. I use Meldaproductions MOscillator - which has a free version.

I use Addictive drums. I use Session Drummer 3 and use a kick that is short and deep to blend with AD's kick. The SD3's kick gives it that thump while AD's kick gives it the feeling of motion.  I use IK's LA-2 on a drum buss along with IK's brickwall limiter. Dropping EQ around 250hz or so, it depends on the key of the song and what the bass is playing, keeps the bass drum from muddying up the bass.

i use autosnap to find the transients of the kick,turn it into midi,then i use that midi clip(track)to sample a wave file in a library of kicks i have,some are ones ive made,like sampling bonhams(from zeppelin)in the leeve breaks" ive sampled that kick and other drummers kicks to use as what i call "beef tracks"

i will also make a copy of my bass guitar(or bass instruments) and dial it in with EQ and compression,i like to use the pro channel actually,its got the notch filters for dialing it right in.remember these two instruments fight over space in the low frequency sound spectrum,so you need to make sure they're not sharing the same frequency and/or space,i say space,i mean pan L / R or Center.
kick and Bass are like meat and potato's bra. 

these arent the greatest examples(previous versions),but seth is very good at showing you the steps;

http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONARU.aspx/Master-Class


http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONARU.aspx/Master-Class

this video will show you how to grab a transient from your kick drum in a mix and turn it into a midi file.thus using that midi file to sample another kick to use in "sound stacking"

sound stacking + EQ + compression =Fat kick sound

Heroics


Hi
 
what would you guys say , is the ultimate trick , to get a nice pushing ; crisp ,pushing kickdrum in a fat dance track ?
 
Is it ,to compress the drum trax like ultra hard , almost limit them ? So they will never ever go even 0.2 DB over the kickdrum ?
I use SONNOX trans mod on the kickdrum , I find it ultra important , I would not work without it anymore.
Sometimes in a track ,its just ,that in some parts ; suddenly the kick looses its crisp ; hence it gets like "disturbed "
And yes I use sidechain compressing on the bassline as well via VC channel , I love VC channel plugin .
Is there other good trix Im not aware of ?
 

In my opinion, the ultimate trick used depends on the kick drum that is being used. For example, (not singling you out Konradh...you gave good advice, but I feel the need to counter it to explain what I'm talking about here) if we look at what Konradh offered, that advice may work in one scenario but it's not something I would use as a starting point for everything. So let's take a look at it for a second.
 
We have a kick that we're boosting from 50-60 Hz like he mentioned. What happens if the kick drum you use already has enough 50-60 in it? What happens if you want your bass guitar to fall in the lower end of the sub range and want a slappier kick with more beater? If that's the case, this whole thing is moot.
 
This is why I'm saying, there are no tricks until you can get a handle on the kick drum that is being used and you then have to exploit its strengths. Where Konradh may feel removing 300 is crucial, sometimes a kick can use 300 to give it body. One thing you do NOT EVER do in this field is just cut something automatically or boost something automatically. You MUST consider what the sound source is doing as an entity.
 
What good is removing 300 Hz if the sound could benefit from a little 300 Hz? What good is boosting 2.5k to 3.5k when the kick drum really needs a bump at 7k for a higher ended beater attack that isn't as abrasive as a 3.5k boost? See what I'm talking about?
 
There are no such things as starting point eq's...period. Every sound, every sound capture, every sample, every mic placement etc, will bring on different results. Your ears, your monitors, your knowledge, all this changes what a sound can end up sounding like. Your best bet is to plan your attack before you print the tracks.
 
What has worked for me is to make up my mind ahead of time whether I will be using a kick drum with more "boom" or more "beater attack". Or, if I will be using a bass guitar with more sub low end in it, this will dictate what type of kick drum I use. If my bass is going to be the source of low end in a song, I can allow the kick to have more beater attack and less low end push.
 
If the bass guitar is pushing more of a percussive sound with a bit more high end, my kick drum can then be a bit more of a source of low end. When you have both at the same time, you're setting yourself up for frequency masking and a nightmare of a time making both low end instruments fit.
 
So in closing, the trick you end up using to fatten a kick drum or increase its snap, depends on the kick drum sound itself. You don't just do things unless this is a kick you have tried and tested before. I wouldn't compress a brand new kick drum used in a mix tonight the same way I compressed the kick drum that was used in the last song I just did. I would not use the same cuts and boosts. I would not use the same parallel compression. You have to base your techniques on the sound source at all times....there are no starting points....remember that.
 
That said, the various "tricks" have been covered. If I were you, I would try my best to stay away from side-chaining and get things right without it. Side-chaining can be helpful in certain situations, but something suffers and is removed from the mix for short periods. I don't want my kick drum eliminating my bass transients because I can't make the bass fit in the mix correctly. I want my kick and my bass to be consistently heard at all times or I fix it the right way. This is of course just my opinion, but I hate this technique and see it as a cheap way of compensating for people that are not quite qualified to tweak a mix correctly.
 
For effect purposes or in cases of dance or hip-hop effects, yeah...it can be helpful, but it should not be relied on as a crutch. The best trick is choosing the right sound source at the start, eq'ing it properly, compressing it for snap or sustain and moving on. Best of luck.
 
-Danny

Well spoken ... the kick is difficult and tricky.  For years I've tried to perfect the kick and have begged for help.

So it appears there's lot of oversimplified guess work by us mortals, per Danny's convincing logic.

I've resorted to beatscape (rex) kicks (pre-fabs) for experimentations ... some may lack a lot of velocity variations ... but user-friendly kick samples take the guess-work out.


IOWs: Just pick the dance-kicks you'd consider and experiment with them to your own taste!  If you can do better with the comps and eq ... God bless!

So you all agree ? SONNOX transmod ....is simply divine ?

10-4 ?