Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My computer is already running Win7/64 and I'm totally cool with why this is better when considering the overall picture of the system topography. I've got that. I'm specifically talking going to the trouble to run Sonar 64 bit versions vs the benefits of the effort. The exact nature of my question is why " x64bit is much better. Its just 1000000 times better on everything". I have some plugins that are still 32 bit and from that perspective I would have to use  wrappers on them and they apparently don't always work/play well with all other plugs or some such.  I don't think your auto gear comparison is even in the ball park.

Freddie H

wmb


The computer is plenty 64 bit ready. My last system was 32 bit XP with 4 gigs of ram and I was not RAM challenged with Sonar as much as I was CPU challenged in that system.

Win7 64, i7 3770k, 16 gigs of ram, SSD system drive, RAID 5 Audio drive and standard HDD for regular data. I also do video work which is where the 64 bit pays off. I guess I'll just dabble with 64 bit as time goes by but I see no need to leap into it. I just don't see any workflow payoff that requires me to head off that way. Seems like it's the samplers and synths that get ram hungry.

I will not go into why x64bit is much better. Its just 1000000 times better on everything. I can tell you there are more benefits then just memory aspect! That you consider only use x32bit software then there are fully functional, "up to date" x64bit versions out there working 100x times better doesn't make any sense. Actually its just ridiculous!
 
Let me ask you; when you drive a car do you only use the first two gears, not all the five too?

wmb


Maybe I wasn't clear enough. My computer is already running Win7/64 and I'm totally cool with why this is better when considering the overall picture of the system topography. I've got that. I'm specifically talking going to the trouble to run Sonar 64 bit versions vs the benefits of the effort. The exact nature of my question is why " x64bit is much better. Its just 1000000 times better on everything". I have some plugins that are still 32 bit and from that perspective I would have to use  wrappers on them and they apparently don't always work/play well with all other plugs or some such.  I don't think your auto gear comparison is even in the ball park.

Freddie H

wmb


The computer is plenty 64 bit ready. My last system was 32 bit XP with 4 gigs of ram and I was not RAM challenged with Sonar as much as I was CPU challenged in that system.

Win7 64, i7 3770k, 16 gigs of ram, SSD system drive, RAID 5 Audio drive and standard HDD for regular data. I also do video work which is where the 64 bit pays off. I guess I'll just dabble with 64 bit as time goes by but I see no need to leap into it. I just don't see any workflow payoff that requires me to head off that way. Seems like it's the samplers and synths that get ram hungry.

I will not go into why x64bit is much better. Its just 1000000 times better on everything. I can tell you there are more benefits then just memory aspect! That you consider only use x32bit software then there are fully functional, "up to date" x64bit versions out there working 100x times better doesn't make any sense. Actually its just ridiculous!

Let me ask you; when you drive a car do you only use the first two gears, not all the five too?

99% of all professional plugins are in full x64bit so what plugins are you using that isn't x64?
And about bitbridge. what is the problem? You will not even notice them running in bitbridge. Open and work as any regular plugin.

I must say it was not clear that you were running a 64 bit OS. That being the case all you need to do is install the 64 bit version and see for yourself if it is good for you or not. 

Asking as if you were not sure about the benefits of a 64 bit OS skewed the answers.   

I leave it to a wise Geek to correct me, but I believe I understood from my Sweetwater tech that if Sonar is not running in 64-bit, your plug-ins cannot take advantage of all the memory, even if the PC is 64-bit. 

A couple of my instruments were initially only available in 32-bit so for a while I ran in 64-bit and used a bit-bridge for the 32-bit instruments; but now everything has been converted to 64-bit.

As far as audio quality goes, I am not sure 64-bit v 32-bit makes a difference you can hear, although it is mathematically and theoretically superior.  Perhaps one of our mastering engineer guys like CJ can answer that point.

Lets us get back to basics and start talking about the final sound quality of a project at the end of the day. If you start thinking about this then the answer is that 64 bit is not going to sound any better more than likely in the long run. 

Sure the advantages mentioned here are all good and although I am on a 32 bit system when I build a new one I too will be going 64 bit but for other reasons not quality. If you are running a great stable 32 bit system then leave it alone. If you are building a new setup or upgrading then I think 64 bit is the better option for sure.

Most DAW's offer double precision operations in the area you need it the most such as on the final mix buss.

Great engineer= great mix even on 32 bit system
Average engineer = average mix even at 64 bit.

You have to get things back into perspective. In terms of stability one could argue that an all 32 bit system with its tendency to not fall over or have problems with any plugins could be classed as more stable. 32 bit is still 16 bits higher than the final playback medium and that is pretty darn good.

I could match or probably better any mix Freddie (or any other 64 bit operators out there) is doing in 64 bit in a 32 bit system. Do you think the listener is going to say after hearing a great mix  ....Hmmm that must have been done on a 64 bit system. I doubt it!

64 bit is good but for other reasons not so much in the final outcome in terms of real sound quality. That is in the hands of something else entirely.

Jeff Evans



I could match or probably better any mix Freddie (or any other 64 bit operators out there) is doing in 64 bit in a 32 bit system. Do you think the listener is going to say after hearing a great mix  ....Hmmm that must have been done on a 64 bit system. I doubt it!

64 bit is good but for other reasons not so much in the final outcome in terms of real sound quality. That is in the hands of something else entirely.

 
Jeff, I doubt that you mix better than me.
You are correct regarding system mixing on x32 but not on production.  x64bit is essential for me and the production I do.
Still you can mix on x32 bit system too but you run out of power quickly like in Pro Tools and you need dump all to audio and make many things destructive.

I see lots of "I just deleted everything that wasn't 32 bit and moved on" and "it's just better" types of answers and that's where I'm kind like "why"? How is moving to 64 bit Sonar now better if it narrows my tools? We are working in a results based field and if the move doesn't necessarily improve output or productivity (dealing with wrapped vst plugs) then is it an advantage. 

I use UAD plugins so I've accepted that by using those I will only ever be able to render mixes at realtime speeds regardless of CPU power. I see that as an acceptable cost/benefit decision. Moving to higher sampling rates presents more load on the CPU and takes up more disk space but it sounds better to me. That is an acceptable cost/benefit decision. I don't have many occasions to use software based synths or samplers (if I do use them it's only ever been just one instance per mix). When I work with people who are doing things with synths and keyboards it's almost always an actual synth or I'm connecting to their audio interface connected to their laptop. I don't avoid using plugin instruments, I just don't encounter the need with the types of groups I work with. 

So if I move to 64 bit and start using Jbridge or something then I'm introducing something into my workflow that might lead to stability issues or just extra steps for adding plugins (I don't actually know how this works). What are the benefits when I see the costs as: 1. limiting my tools by possibly getting rid of non-64bit plugins, 2. Potentially adding more steps to putting a plugin on a track, 3. Opening up the possibility of instability by choice.

For those of you doing EDM and scoring with tons of virtual instruments I can totally understand why 64bit sonar is a great choice, it's not koolaid. I don't really care about RAM gigs 3.6 through 16 on my mixes if I don't need them. They are there for rendering videos that I work on and I would never look back on 32 bit versions of those applications because the x64 version workflow is identical (for that matter I know I've used 32 bit audio plugins without doing anything in x64 sony vegas). For video editing I understand the cost/benefit and the weight is clearly in the benefit side of things.

When using Jbridge do you have to deal with it every time you install a plugin or is it a once per project type of thing?

Thanks for tolerating my slightly Luddite attitude about this. I'm not being obstinate, I'm just really questioning the worth of going 64bit for my situation when I cannot see an advantage that supersedes the cost. I have it installed and use it in the very specific situations where I see the advantage (audiosnapping a full drum take with tons of 16th note fills) but for mixing it's not attractive. Heck, I guess I could use it for tracking and then move back to 32 for mixing in my comfort zone and maybe over time I might naturally migrate through gradual necessity rather than burdening myself with a self imposed limitation. I think I might have discovered my x64 route.

Cheers

Maybe I missed it Jeff but I don't believe anyone said a 64 bit OS is going to make any ones mix sound better.

As to a 64 bit audio engine everyone should keep in mind no one has ever heard 64 bit audio.  The very best one can hear is 24 bit audio because that is the limit of D to A converters.  

Maybe I missed it Jeff but I don't believe anyone said a 64 bit OS is going to make any ones mix sound better.....Freddie did, he said it is a million times better at everything so I just included sound quality in that. 

As to a 64 bit audio engine everyone should keep in mind no one has ever heard 64 bit audio.  The very best one can hear is 24 bit audio because that is the limit of D to A converters..... Thanks John for bringing that up and a very good point. And they say you only need to be 8 bits higher than that to be able to process things well and keep things sounding rather excellent.

As far as processing goes who cares, there are usually ways around it, freezing tracks etc. It is still the end result that counts and that is what people hear. Remember if the music is great and the performance is great, the engineer is great and the emotional effect is great to the listener then 64 bit does not really matter does it. It is actually pretty low down in the scheme of things.

What does Ethan Winer have to say about 64 bit processing? Any ideas.

I'm with you Jeff. I like 64 bits in all its forms but I am not so brainwashed that I don't understand the truth.(this is not a smear on anyone) Its nice but it is not essential. I do recommend it for the reasons I already posted. That is all I have to say about it.