I can say, for me, when editing, mixing or otherwise viewing lanes, I nearly always find myself expanding and contracting them, getting routinely disoriented in the process. This is the pitts when AutoZoom is enabled--not friendly at all. I know the Mute/Solo buttons are easier to click, but when using layers in X1, if you've enabled layers, they remained enabled indefinitely. In contrast, in X2's lanes, if you need to contract a folder, for example, then go back into it later, invariably I have to re-expand the lanes again for a specific track. 

Layers were cleaner and easier to navigate for me. Lanes are a pain to navigate. So, for me it's MUCH slower to work with lanes vs. layers.

I think just fixing the bugs and setting up a couple of ways to make managing lanes a little easier would help tremendously. One hint is to color the lanes a darker or lighter color than the track. Also, when solo-ing a lane, I would like to see that lane be the one that is displayed in the track "picture"/waveform vs. only the first lane whether it's solo'd or muted or not.

brconflict


I can say, for me, when editing, mixing or otherwise viewing lanes, I nearly always find myself expanding and contracting them, getting routinely disoriented in the process. This is the pitts when AutoZoom is enabled--not friendly at all. I know the Mute/Solo buttons are easier to click, but when using layers in X1, if you've enabled layers, they remained enabled indefinitely. In contrast, in X2's lanes, if you need to contract a folder, for example, then go back into it later, invariably I have to re-expand the lanes again for a specific track. 

Layers were cleaner and easier to navigate for me. Lanes are a pain to navigate. So, for me it's MUCH slower to work with lanes vs. layers.

I think just fixing the bugs and setting up a couple of ways to make managing lanes a little easier would help tremendously. One hint is to color the lanes a darker or lighter color than the track. Also, when solo-ing a lane, I would like to see that lane be the one that is displayed in the track "picture"/waveform vs. only the first lane whether it's solo'd or muted or not.

Not sure if this will speed things up for you but you can expand/collapse the lanes of the currently in focus track by pressing Shift + T. 

carl


It's more like a 'robbed Peter to pay Paul' thing.
It's not that Lanes are totally unusable but that many find Layers were more useful for the getting the same type results in less time & with less effort. ( & frustration)

At the risk of saying plus one...
+1


Edit: 
To avoid the sense of "hit and run" and leaving it at the glib "+!", here are some things I liked before with layers:
- screen real estate:  using the track space with all the layers
- screen real estate:  being able to see multiple tracks with layers at one time
- workflow:  rebuild function 
- workflow:  cross-fading clips between layers was easier
- workflow:  quick toggle for layer display without tracks shifting to accommodate
- and others that I can't think of off-hand

I get the idea behind Take Lanes and I think when its got some quirks ironed out, it will be way beyond what others have at the moment but the inability to copy and paste clips into the lanes like you could with layers sucks. For adding spot delays on specific clips...layers ruled and having to create a new track for every little clip is a huge PITA.

I prefer lanes to layers.  I think with a few tweaks they will be FAR better than layers.
 
Please don't bring layers back, they were erratic, at best.  Just improve Lanes.
 
I am already finding lanes much better for my "workflow", but can understand that it is not true for all users.  I think they will improve with a few more tweaks, so that eveyone is happier.
And if they're good enough for Mike McQ, they're good enough for me..

Edit:  To avoid the sense of "hit and run" and leaving it at the glib "+!", here are some things I liked before with layers: - screen real estate:  using the track space with all the layers - screen real estate:  being able to see multiple tracks with layers at one time - workflow:  rebuild function  - workflow:  cross-fading clips between layers was easier - workflow:  quick toggle for layer display without tracks shifting to accommodate - and others that I can't think of off-hand

Okay... I'll give this a shot.

- screen real estate:  using the track space with all the layers

Not sure what you mean by that.

screen real estate:  being able to see multiple tracks with layers at one time

You can but you have to disable Auto Zoom. This can be done with Shift + Z to avoid having to go into the Track View menus every time.

workflow:  rebuild function

Yeah that should be reintroduced but selecting and bouncing to clips works or just holding Shift and dragging the clips into the lane you want isn't THAT much of a pain.

workflow:  cross-fading clips between layers was easier

I don't see how. It works almost exactly the same as before with manual fades as far as I can tell and the auto crossfade feature (which I never used before X2 admittedly) is just a matter of enabling it/choosing the desired X-Fade in the Track View Options Menu.

workflow:  quick toggle for layer display without tracks shifting to accommodate - and others that I can't think of off-hand

Again I think this is solved by turning off Auto Zoom (if I'm understanding the issue correctly).

Auto Zoom is kind of a pain in the Bleeples in many situations. Toggling it is something I've gotten into the habit of doing. However I find I leave it off most of the time. We didn't even have that feature in X1 so it's no big loss but it is nice to have when I want to use it.

Cheers.

Keysman


I get the idea behind Take Lanes and I think when its got some quirks ironed out, it will be way beyond what others have at the moment but the inability to copy and paste clips into the lanes like you could with layers sucks. For adding spot delays on specific clips...layers ruled and having to create a new track for every little clip is a huge PITA.

Drag Copy/Paste works. Regular Copy/Paste does seem a little weird but I think that might be a bug. It will paste but in the same lane.... but as I said Select > Ctrl + Click + Drag works fine for copying and pasting in lanes.

I don't know what Spot Delay is.

You don't have to create a new Lane for each clip. Not sure where you are getting that idea from. I've got a bunch of clips stacked in a few lanes I currently have open.

Cheers.

The whole point that a few folks here seem to keep missing is "you do not completely remove a feature that many liked and replace it with a half baked-almost there version of the same thing.
 
If your going to replace it-do it right. It's not a matter of "someone showing us how" I know how, I don't like it as it exists today.
Simple again.
 
Yes, I vote go forward-not backwards - But IMHO they went sideways-That's all-not trying to start a rumble here. Jsut the facts.
 

I think the current incarnation is just a launchpad for future versions. Yeah, they got a way to go but I gotta say as an outsider coming in the layers thing was pretty wacky and not very professional. Something needed to be done and it seems they decided to rip off the band aid real quick. Sadly I think we're stuck with them more or less as they are until X3 comes out.

And I just want to make sure you guys know I'm not trying to be condescending or argumentative... I totally get it. I just truly would like to help folks get into a good workflow with lanes. If I can solve even one little thing for ANYONE I figure what the hell, eh? It's the little stuff that makes a big difference in Sonar I find.

Cheers.

Sadly, I agree that we will not likely see any improvement for a while (I hope I'm proven wrong! ;-))

Layers was a totally unique method. Everyone else uses lanes of one form or another. It was good for me... Professional? The only thing in the look that might be perceived as not so were the mute/solo buttons as they appeared crammed in a bit. Unto themselves they worked just fine. The bugs were with various tools for them such as the rebuild (which I never had much issue with).

I wish there was a way to improve my workflow, but the limitation(s) of the current Lanes feature have me re-sizing, dragging, changing screensets etc... Simply to see what I want.

The only workaround I've found is to not use Lanes and simply stay with Tracks. This too is tedious for me, but often less so than my experiences with Lanes. So I try both periodically to alleviate my frustration (with no real success at the frustration tho I do get my work done eventually)

Keni