• SONAR
  • In-The-Box Vocal Chain??? (p.2)
2013/01/27 11:38:38
AT
Start w/ a good recording.

If you have SONAR Producer & the CA2l (or any LA2A style comp) a traditional chain is 1176 followed by the LA2A.  Here at home that is what I use in the PC.

The PC EQ is good - usually I roll off the bottom - the filter is great for that.  The rest of the EQ settings, like the comp settings, depends upon the song and singer.  But instead of the PC EQ I usually use Softube's Focusing EQ, which automatically adjusts gain as you adjust the cutoff points.  It works well.

The vocal(s) then go to the vocal bus.  Backing vocals w/ often have their own bus if there is something special (thickening up the reverb, for example, or drastic EQ cut) needs be done. 

For SONAR Pro this bus usually has the ssl bus comp engaged.  It is a great bus comp for jelling the sound, tho it works best on busy, complex submixes where it lets the loudest sound "pop" out of the submix.  Guitars are a good example of it working well.  But w/ vocals it can help firm up the sound.  And on all these vocals the compression settings are light - a few dbs here, a few there.  I find serial compression smoother, more natural than slamming a single instance (unless you are going for that effect). 

The goal of compression is primarily to get the vocal to float at a single level wherever you place it w/in the song.  The softest vocal levels will be loud enough to be heard, while the louder sections come down so they don't overwhelm the instrumentation. WAves vocal rider plugin is a good mental image to hold, with a maximum and minimum level the sound will achieve.  You don't want to get rid of the singer's dynamics, just constrain them.

The first thing to do, even before you start enabling your vocal chain, is to ride the fader levels.  That is the most important thing you can do.  Once you've automated that, the compressors have much less to do and can do it unobtrusively.  The final thing to do, if you are running a hot mix w/ a hot vocal, is to go back into the automation (or bus automation) and, if you are hitting the red because the singer is loud and the guitarist and drummer are all hitting a downbeat loud, is drop the vocal level down 1 to 3 or even more dBs to keep the overall level out of the red.  Usually I'm pushing the vocal the hardest in such cases, and it takes less cut than going back into the guitar and bass and drum separately taking off a 1/2 db on each.

@
2013/01/27 15:17:59
konradh
First part is not about in-the-box, but you may find the setings interesting.  The second section is about in the box mixing.
 
About 50% of the time, I start by going through a PreSonus Eureka when recording.  Basic compressor settings:
    Threshold: -12 to -18
    Ratio: 6 to 8
    Gain:  Depends.  Right now it is at +2
    Soft-Knee: On (or IN)
    Mid or Fast Attack
    Mid Release

    I usually leave the EQ flat on input for recording unless I hear a problem.

    Impedance and Gain in the input will vary by mic.
 
    Mic selection is extremely important. I think I have said before on this forum that I have been happier with a Rode NT2A than many mics costing ten times as much; but it all depends on the singer and the right match. I know almost no method other than trial and error until you get to know the singer.

When mixing:
• Melodyne (If you use this, select POST on the track in Inspector or you will bypass ProChannel)
• ProChannel 1176 compressor set so the peak reduction is about 4db.  Set the mix to 50% to simulate parallel compression.
• ProChannel EQ HPF filter around 100hz to remove any rumble or noise.  Other EQ as needed, but I try not to overdo it.
• Sometimes I use EZMix.  It has some rather extreme settings, but the Wide Vocals setting is not too crazy.

I usually send the vocal to a dedicated vocal reverb bus.  Most people like plate reverbs on vocals.  For some reason, I am usually happier with a medium hall and not too much reverb in general.

I double vocals in most cases, but I have a weird voice and weird ideas about sound.



2013/01/27 17:16:13
LpMike75
More of techniques than chains

1- HP Filtering
2- Volume automation
3- Manual De-essing if needed (with volume automation)
4- I like RComressor from Waves and/or T-Racks Opto Compressor for vox
5- Various effects - verbs-delays-disortion, etc based on project
6- All vox to a bus and usually use the PC compressor for final blending.  Used very lightly, as anything over 2 DB of reduction sounds horrible with the PC compressors (in my opinion)
2013/01/28 03:19:00
TS
"as anything over 2 DB of reduction sounds horrible with the PC compressors"

even with the PC2A ?
2013/01/28 13:52:12
konradh
Hmm, anything over 2 db of compression sounds horrible?

That is an interesting thought since 2 db of compression is pretty mild.  I was being conservative recommending 4 above.  In truth, I am OK with more.
 
This thread is about the vocal chain, though.  If it were about mastering compression, I may have a different thought since, ideally, your gain staging would eliminate the need for a master bus compressor to move the dial more than a couple of db or so (unless you are in Oasis).

2013/01/31 03:35:36
DJ Darkside
You are guys are great and giving me lots of new ideas and techniques... Thank you for involving yourselves and sharing, I am sure others will benefit from this post too.

This is my vocal chain / process:

1) I will usually have anywhere from 3 to 5 vocal tracks for my verses depending on what I am doing or what the song calls for. I add an EQ to each track doing a roll off at about 120Hz and below.

2) I then create a bus and call it 'Vox' and route all the vocal tracks for the verse to that bus. On this bus I usually EQ starting with a 120Hz roll of and then either cutting or boosting to get the sound I want. Next, I add a compressor and dial to taste usually -25dB threshold, fast attack, fast release and about 2.5 to 3.6 dB boost on the output / makeup gain. I then slap a L2 limiter on and set my output threshold to about -3dB and share of a bit of the top end of the vocals to tame things up. Finally, I add a Desser and remove the unwanted highs in the vocals.

3) I then insert a send on the Vox bus to the Reverb and delay bus and dial to taste. Sometimes I send my double vocals to the delay and dial it down. Gives me a nice separation between the main vocal and the doubles.

4) I then create a final bus call 'Vox Pre' and route the 'Vox,' Delay and Reverb to the 'Vox Pre' and set a L2 limiter on that bus and again, I shave off the top to tame peaks. This final bus gets routed to the master bus and then out to the speakers.

So far, I have been getting decent results but I just want to expand what I am doing and learn from others and get different approaches to the same thing.

Thanks again everyone, much appreciated!
2013/01/31 04:11:52
VariousArtist
for vocals I often follow this process in the box (after recording):
  • EQ:  HP filter on the very bottom end of the vocals to get rid of the rumble that's not voice related
  • EQ:  sweep through all frequency ranges with a boost to find any annoying honkiness or vocal sounds that jar with me, and then subtly reduce those 
  • VC64 Vintage (Sonar plugin):  cycle through the presets to find one that gives presence to the vocals (makes them sit in front of the mix) as well as enhance the character of the voice (i.e. the parts I like, such as breathiness, or accentuate some timbre that I like).  Fiddle with the preset a bit.
  • This is the important part:  BYPASS the VC64 plugin and try to recreate the things I liked from the VC64, but doing so manually with other plugins (usually a combination of EQ, Compressor, maybe another Compressors in serial or parallel, maybe a multiband compressor).
  • When I get something I like, I then compare it against the VC64 and see which sounds better in the overall mix.  The reason for the previous step is twofold:  to challenge myself to learn how to make the sound I want manually, and in doing so perhaps achieve a more appropriate result.  I still may end up reverting back to the VC64, and if so I'll spend more time tweaking with it as I find the presets exciting initially, but often "too much" ultimately
  • Start bringing in various reverbs and/or delays and continue to make adjustments.  I'm rather partial to the CSR Reverbs that I bought on the Cakewalk site awhile ago, although Breverb sounds promising at times.


The irony is that once I find myself getting comfortable with a process, I deliberately mix things up and throw in a random replacement plugin, such as a compressor I'm not familiar with, so that I don't get stuck in a rut and continue to learn.  I'm fascinated by all the various plugins and how different they sound as part of their inherent design, or how differently I work with them because of their layout.  Each time I do this I feel like a beginner again, which is both humbling and exciting. 

Sometimes you just need to fiddle randomly with buttons like the kid we once used to be would, and probably what got many of us interested in the first place.  What does this button do?  Oooh...
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