every time i get the songs where i think i want em, by the time it goes to cd, sounds so much more muddy. out of delta 1010 i had been going into mixing board and out to m-audio speakers. could the mixing board really be giving the songs that much more bass end? should i just mix straight out into the bx8 speakers and use the daw as the volume. i am also thinking about installing a car stereo into one of the carpeted walls of the studio(like local car stereo shop) just to give me another monitoring device in the studio. getting tired of running out to the car at all hours of the night.lol do any of you have any ideas as to better LISTEN to these mixes? also the tone of the song really changes in sound forge and cd architect. all these daws have different tone also. what sounds good in sonar x2 might sound great in architect, or vise versa. using sonar x2a,sound forge, cd architect, waves,t-racks, ozone to polish. asus i5-win7-64bit sp1, 2 gig external, 2 - delta 1010 cards, yamaha 24 track , bx8, sound proof room, control room. a truly great set up, just don't seem to have a great control group to listen to and get the mixes closer to as they sound on final cd tone...

What are you playing the cd back through ?

As an experiment, send one tune out to be mastered. Yes, it may cost you a little, but you may learn a lot.

Too much bass is typically a sign of a monitoring environment that is essentially, not flat. That would include bass traps, understanding the standing waves (aka frequency cancellation) and other things like that. I doubt seriously that the board is adding that much bass. Admittedly, they all have a color, but if it's pronounced, something else is the issue. (btw, I too, have those Bx8's as reference).

Try this: Turn down the mix until something is the last thing heard. Then turn it back up some - say 3-4 db.  What is missing from the mix?  Chances are, whatever the last thing you heard at the lowest volume is too hot in the mix. Essentially, it should sound as 'balanced' playing back at conversation level as concert level.

Also, in your 'car', is the EQ flat during playback, no subwoofer? windows up or down? driving down the highway where road noise is 75db? All things that will effect what you hear.

i wouldn't try and compare you mix to a tune off the radio. Lets' assume you get your mix to sound like that. If you're lucky enough to get airplay, by the time they get through compressing, eq'ing, altering and doing whatever they do to it on the way to the transmission amplifer, well, you won't like it. (I didn't - I was fortunate to have a friend that owned a dozen stations and could sneak it on the air at 3 in the morning - thanks Dave wherever you are now)

I don't know what type of music you are doing, but generally speaking most people like a firm, punchy bass... and so we tend to make sure that 'our' mixes have that in it. Trouble is, most (nearly 100%) people add some form of EQ on top of all you hard work.

I have found that to sound 'reasonable' on other playback devices, i have to leave the bass a little less pronounced in my environment (that's a concrete walled basment for the record). It was (and still is) a hard thing to do.

Note: I'm certainly not saying I'm any good at it have it down pat - I only do this for a hobby)

You metioned a sound proof room, that doesn't automatcally equal an acoustically flat room. Check out http://www.johnlsayers.com/ for superb room design plans and advice. Also, Ethan Winer http://ethanwiner.com/ has some good info on acoustics.

As other might chime in with, don't master thru phones, give yourself plenty of breaks - even over days (trust me, it WILL sound different the next day if you've been at it for 4-6 hours the night before).

Also, this is a link to some mastering articles from other sonar users: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=432991&mpage=1&key=%F1%A9%AD%9F

Bottom line for me is:  Try getting an 'unmastered' mix to sound good - that doesn't mean loud - but good and balanced, then master it.  The mastering step should just be the polish.

Good luck. Great sounding mixes are a journey. Take your time and know there will be many stesp taken.

(once again, still on my journey)

Randyman, I loved your post. I totally agree with it. I find that you might eq differently for the mix you plan to post on YouTube as compared with the mix you're going to burn and distribute on CDs. I'd love to learn to mix for 5 point surround or Theater Environments.
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Has anyone tried this book?
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http://www.amazon.com/Mas...stering+audio+bob+katz

Your room, ears and the way your using your tools are your faults

i've asked this question on forums for years and still can't nail it either... i've noticed the more years i spend mixing and editing, the more critical my listening skills with respect to the frequency spectrum.  I've done many things to reduce low end mush:  my room is not well 'trapped', so i have my mons pretty close to my head so i'm getting a direct wave and less room wave... i started using a sub and used known popular reference songs to set it up... started using tight comp and eq to restrict frequencies on instruments, esp bass and kick... watched use of reverb and delays to make sure it doesn't bleed into lo to lo-mids... used master fx to have it mostly mastered for the final mix instead of adding another mastering stage... so now it's done in Sonar.  Then I use the wav or flac mix in a prog like CD Architect and use a multiband comp, lowering the bottom bands a bit, lowering the band between 250-900 Hz or so a little more, and boosting the 1000-6000 some, changing some comp settings while listening... and using a good dithering prog.  What's most challenging is if you use synths like I do, so I pull my hair out trying to fit the wide freq range in the mix.  Even then, I find surprises in the burn and need to fix some spots.
If someone has more magic to share, I'd love to hear it... 

  ty cj, i already knew my ears were my fault.lol i did do something interesting tonight guys. i took the crappy mix cd.... put it in a cd player, ran it into the mixing board... set the eq's as close sounding to the problem mix as possible(that i monitored in my favorite car stereo)... started a new f/x chain(in the box) that while using the new control group eq settings on the mixing board, got me way closer to what i was trying to achieve sonically. so now i am taking an ear-brake, then i will go back in and adjust what i now perceive as 1/2 way acceptable on the eq(out of box)another 1/4 the way up on eq(in the box) hence learning to control my uncontrolled environment. once i get the money i am reworking the control room to more correct measurements and bass destroyers. the shame of it all is i am learning what a sub par control room i have...

  pulled my hair out long ago. my head looks more like cj's than any of yours.lol cj you are always so zen like in your answers...been following your post for years.

I think the hardest part of mixing is making it sound good on different systems. I can get it to sound perfect in the studio, but in the car or in another room it doesn't sound as good. Very frustrating!

  agreed, by far the most frustrating thing.and in this day and age i get to also bounce one to mp3 so they can hear it. i say hear it because cd is much more like listening to music... yes i still love my albums!