Loptec

Drumtracks


Hi Everyone,

I've done a search and I'm not sure if there is a topic that covers specifically what I'm trying to do. I'll explain my set up and then what I'm trying to do. If anyone can provide some info that would be greatly apprecated. Thanks!

Set Up: Yamaha DTXreme IIs electronic drum set----->M-audio midi cable------> EZ Drummer------>Sonar X1

What I would like to do is set up a template for recording, mixing and and bouncing drum tracks in which all midi notes are seperated into individual tracks so that I can control each drum and cymbal individually. I have already done some recording in Sonar and my EZ Drummer/VST/Midi/Sonar connection is working. What I need to figure out is how to set up the appropriate tracks/type of tracks so that everything gets filtered properly.

I know that generally speaking it's best to keep midi all on one track and split the audio to seperate tracks, but there are situations in which I like to be able to control each drum and cymbal on an idividual basis from the EZ Drummer (soft synth) mixer as there are various options there that would not be available on an idividual drum/cymbal basis if all the drums and cymbals were controlled by one instance of EZ Drummer (for example, I sometimes like to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options).

Is there a way for me to set up my template so that when I record my drum track all of the midi notes automatically get filtered into sepreate tracks as I record, each of which have a different instance of EZ Drummer (soft synth) attached to it? I send the individual drum tracks to my clients so I also have to "bounce to tracks" for all the midi tracks so that I can create the seperate audio tracks. If I have to record all of the midi data to one track how do I set up my tracks (and what type of tracks do I set up) so that when I use "Split Notes to Tracks" all of the midi data gets split to already created and saved tracks that are each controlled by an indiviudal instance of EZ Drummer and that are pre labelled snare drum, bass drum etc..

I have attempted to do this in many ways but just can't seem to get it to work.

I've used the run cal script for "Spilt Notes to Tracks" but I end up having to manually set up EZ drummer on each track seperately. I'd like to set up a template so that I can just plug and play rather then have to do tedious set up everytime.

If anyone can provide me some info on how to create this template that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Instead of having the notes on different MIDI-tracks, you still can edit the individual drums by selecting the option
Notes -> Show Velocity on Selected Notes Only - in the PRV.

Now, just click the note you want to edit on the diatonic keyboard to the left, and the velocities of only these notes will show in the controller pane

It's much easier to have all drums in one track. Especially if you want to re-build patterns and such. If you have the notes
in different tracks you have to first select the track you want to make changes in before you can edit and this is (if anything)
very time-consuming

Agreed....VERY time consuming and a pain in the butt because any editing will need to be done on individual tracks. This was one of the reasons I totally gave up on the singular midi tracks option. I just couldn't find a need for it other than to send individual midi tracks to other drum modules to mix and match.
 
As a side note to my post up there ^ this is what I was talking about with EZD. This is an old pic using an old version of Sonar, but it remains the same. You'll notice all the different modules in place. Once you have them all in your synth rack, you can custom name them as I've done. In this particular example, I didn't go too crazy. Most times when I've done this, I could have 12 or more modules. But in this one, all toms were in one module where I normally separate them individually. But each instance of EZD will show an over-all sample load that equals all modules that are being used. For example, those modules you see are using 320 mb worth of samples and each module will say the same  because they sum from one another.
 
The only issue you may experience with this method is, each instance will not load your samples upon loading your project. You will need to double click and open each instance to get it to load the samples. This is a drag, but one of the side effects from this method.  
   
  
 
See it close up here: http://www.dannydanzi.com/Media/EzdHybridExtreme.jpg 
 
-Danny
(sorry about that, pic wasn't loading!)
 
Edited for spelling

Just looking at the Yamaha DTXtreme manual I think FreeFlyBertl is correct in that it is sending all the midi notes out on one midi channel only.

There is a way of transmitting each kit piece on a different midi channel but it involves not using the DTXtreme at all but something else and that may be hard to get.(unless you can pick one up on ebay) 

I have an AKAI unit called an ME35T which is a rack mount unit that accepts 8 audio or trigger inputs and can generate midi out data. It is lightening fast and you have got enormous control over the way it responds and what it sends out including every trigger input generating midi notes on a different midi channel. You would plug your drum pads and things into this instead of the Yamaha brain. Seems like you don't want any of the sounds in the brain anyway. This is the ultimate thing for simply converting drum pads, sensors or mikes even into midi notes.  It also merges any incoming midi data (eg from a Roland Octapad etc) and feeds that out as well to the midi out. When you are using it with microphones it has all sorts of settings to avoid false triggers as well from neighbouring drums etc..

That way you could then do what Danny is suggesting and set-up a VST on separate tracks for each kit piece and you would be able to do all of this in real time. No splitting or anything later just put all the tracks into record at once.

There is one here for sale and it is not very expensive either:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/A...mp;hash=item416f7985b0

The first major limitation is the Yamaha drum brain not being able to send out on sep midi channels. Once you get over that problem then it could be possible depending then on what VST's you are using etc..

twaddle


Instead of having the notes on different MIDI-tracks, you still can edit the individual drums by selecting the option 

Notes -> Show Velocity on Selected Notes Only - in the PRV.

Now, just click the note you want to edit on the diatonic keyboard to the left, and the velocities of only these notes will show in the controller pane

It's much easier to have all drums in one track. Especially if you want to re-build patterns and such. If you have the notes
in different tracks you have to first select the track you want to make changes in before you can edit and this is (if anything)
very time-consuming

I didn't read anything about wanting to change velocities, that's just the most basic stuff that any softsynth can do. 
What "drumtracks" did say was that he  sometimes likes to turn the room mic off for the toms but leave it on for the snare drum as well as numerous other options. 
He won't be able to do that in the piano roll or in ezdrummer it's self. 

well, yes..
there are a few things that don't come out clear in the original post.
One thing he says though is "in which all midi notes are seperated into individual tracks so that I can control each drum and cymbal individually". Because of this i wanted to explain why it's better to keep the MIDI coming from one VST in the same MIDI-track and (IF velocity maybe would be one of the reasons he'd like to seperate the notes) I also included info on how to edit separate notes in one track, taking velocity as an example since this is the only data stored in each MIDI-on msg aside from note-number

Haven't tried this but I think it should work.
1) Set up multiple midi tracks, one for each drum.
2) Record enable all the tracks, and turn on Input Echo if desired.
3) Add a "Midi Event Filter" plugin to each track.
4) Set the filters to only allow the single note for the drum to pass through.
Once its working save it as a template.

PansFolly


Haven't tried this but I think it should work.
1) Set up multiple midi tracks, one for each drum.
2) Record enable all the tracks, and turn on Input Echo if desired.
3) Add a "Midi Event Filter" plugin to each track.
4) Set the filters to only allow the single note for the drum to pass through.
Once its working save it as a template.

It would be nice if it worked. But I think the MIDI-plugins doesn't filter pre-record, but only filter what's played back from a track.
.,I'm not sure though, but .. I think this is how it works. So, all notes will be recorded to all track even though only the notes selected in the filter will be passed through when played back.

It would be a great feature though to be able to choose if the MIDI-plugins were to be applied pre or post recording! :)
Maybe put this on the wish-list for future versions of Sonar!

I'm surprised there are such strong opinions about this. I've been recording midi drums for years with Sonar - with one midi input cable and resulting in a separate midi track for each piece of the drum kit. I just set the midi out for each piece of the drum kit to a different midi channel. I have a midi track set up to receive each incoming channel. Session Drummer 3 is ideal for sounds and I can alternatively use an external midi sound device like a drum machine to fire sounds on playback and/ or live recording as well. Totally doable, I do it on every song.

I just set the midi out for each piece of the drum kit to a different midi channel....

OK cool lawajava how do you do that.? Do you lay down each part of the drum kit piece by piece? (from a keyboard) That is not playing drums. Read the OP. He is a live player and is playing a Yamaha DTXtreme electronic kit live. All in one go, all parts at once. The Yamaha kit won't allow it because it transmits everything on one midi channel. 

I did not realise the OP was using the IIs model from the DTXtreme. I checked that manual as well (just to make sure) and the same applies in terms of transmitting on one midi channel only. 

The method I have mentioned in my post #12 allows it but using the AKAI ME35T. I would say most electronic kits would not allow sep midi channels of each piece of the kit. But obviously AKAI decided it was a good thing to do for that extra versatility. 

lawajava


I'm surprised there are such strong opinions about this. I've been recording midi drums for years with Sonar - with one midi input cable and resulting in a separate midi track for each piece of the drum kit. I just set the midi out for each piece of the drum kit to a different midi channel. I have a midi track set up to receive each incoming channel. Session Drummer 3 is ideal for sounds and I can alternatively use an external midi sound device like a drum machine to fire sounds on playback and/ or live recording as well. Totally doable, I do it on every song.

Which Electronic drums are you using that allow you to do this?

That's interesting
I don't use V-drums so my knowledge is tiny with regards to such things. 
I would have thought that routing each hit to a separate midi channel should be doable in theory but since people here said otherwise I was in no position to argue.

I would still recommend that drumtracks get something with greater tweakability like Superior drummer, BFD2 or BFD Eco and given the current sale price of BFD2  it is currently cheaper than upgrading to Superior Drummer
The mixing capabilities of both are a huge leap forward in comparison to Ezdrummer and setting up templates with room overhead and ambient mics set how you like them is simple in comparison to the lengthy workarounds suggested here.

As I said above, the BFD2 BFD Eco and other fxpansion goodies sale ends on the 31st of December.

Steve

So this is a limitation of the kit? I figured it'd be pretty easy to get all the pieces separated. I've done it with BFD and my pK but obviously I'm missing something.