You are only asking questions and the result turned into an informative thread that I hope people take the time to read.

TraceyStudios


I started this thread obviously because I didn't understand who has rights to the mix. I should have just let it go after the first repsonse, If I were able to delete the post I would at this point. Last night I was frustrated and tired. I sincerely apologize, to the pros here on the forum. I feel like I put my foot in my mouth big time. I sometimes have the inability to let an argument go. as you can see, I struggled with that last night.
Danny is 100% correct, I should have gone on a fact finding mission, rather than a rant. Everything in Danny's reply makes sense. I have read back thru the thread, and all the responses from everyone make sense. Not sure why I was being so bullheaded. I have no excuse.  Believe me at this point I really wish I would have just let it go. You know you f'ed up when someone doesn't want to do business with you.
Again, I apologize.
Trace

There is nothing wrong with the question or the thread.
There was also nothing wrong with the discussion in the thread.
 
I see nothing to regret.
 
This was actually a decent discussion with a question I believe many have wondered.
 
It is also something very important to know.
You received insight from several people and many probably learned something from it.
 
Now, if you had come to the forum and posted something about selling shoes...
 

rcklln


You are only asking questions and the result turned into an informative thread that I hope people take the time to read.

Absolutely, and I give this a plus one.

To the OP, thanks for asking the question.


Oh, and some great answers too...

I think I am concerned that I have insulted the pros that offer their help. And that was really not my intention. I made the post and the got defensive or offensive when folks replied. I should have asked the question and accepted the answer. What was I thinking, Like somehow if I argued it, it would change the reality? obviously no. I feel I screwed up a good opportunity to learn from those who offer some unique help. After reading my post, one politely declined their services to me. Big reality check for me. That in itself is a important lesson I have learned.

You'll be alright, dude. We all lose our cool sometimes. The important thing is you are being gracious about it. Some folks don't do that. I was gonna point out this morning that it was about not letting people see the mixing process/tricks of a specific engineer but that got covered pretty quickly. In todays world of easily affordable home studios the knowledge and experience an engineer has truly is his most precious commodity. I mean look at how much time you and I spend here and slogging through resource material trying to learn. There is indeed a value to those things. Also most old school pros didn't have the luxury we do of all the abundant resources out there. They had to do it the hard way by paying ridiculous amounts to go to school and spend time apprenticing in studios (I tried apprenticing but it didn't work out because I had to keep a regular job and all I was doing was cleaning the place and setting up/tearing down mics... not very educational). I'd like to see a world where knowledge is free but until we get to a point where educators and professionals can live comfortably without worrying that their income will dry up or their ideas outright stolen things will remain the same.

The good thing is you'll be able to create your own unique knowledge base and approach to things and that there is priceless. Keep on slugging. ;-)

I just asked for the raw tracks from a studio and he agreed... 5 songs x 24 tracks per song x 5 minutes per song = 10 more billing hours... He used a system from MOTU and it didn't have the Export to tracks and FAST BOUNCE feature that I so love. Needless to say that I was not willing to part with my money for the raw tracks. I'm of the mindset that if you want the CWP or CWB file, that is something to talk about up front. It is either agreed upon or not agreed upon. No hard feelings, everybody will do business differently. People may have strong opinions, pro or con, but this was a good subject. I learned a few things myself.

TraceyStudios

sharke


Also, what real use would the mix file be to you? You're unlikely to have all of the plugs that the engineer used on it. You're going to load the file and Sonar is going to say "the following plugs are missing...."

So if I don't have all the plugins, I don't deserve to have this file? Could I buy the plugins? would another mix engineer have said plugins?

 
 
Plugin's aren't everything. You can't buy the expertice the Mixer uses to manipulate the plugins. We all to commonly overlook that music is an art. That art is developed over many years of trial, ERROR, and training. This is what you paid for... His artistic expertices. Otherwise, I would think you would have mixed it yourself from the beginning.
Another point... If he gave you the mix files, would you still expect him to maintain them if you wanted changes? Taking the mix files means you're on your own. If you give the mix files to another engineer and they screw up your music, who's fault is that now? Would you say the mix files are broken and the original engineer should fix them?
 
If you ask a Baker to bake you a Wedding cake, do you expect the cake and recipe?????
 
Just saying...

 

You could kind of relate this to a Photographer.

If you hire him to shoot your wedding...he does the work.
the Negatives belong to HIM.  The Proofs belong to HIM.
The Photographs belong to HIM.  That is, until you purchase them.


The same applies here...

If you ordered JUST a mixed song, that is ALL you get.  
You will NOT get each individual track, the effects chains he used,
or anything else.  You will get a completed MIX.  It won't even be
mastered, as that is an entirely separate process.

As the saying goes....you get what you pay for.

Another point... If he gave you the mix files, would you still expect him to maintain them if you wanted changes?

I lost two full albums I'd have liked to taken a crack at myself because of this. I foolishly figured the guy was hanging onto the original tracks because he was more than just an engineer to the band. Man I wish I had had the foresight to get those files originally. Ugh. Live and learn.

I believe there are 'rights' in relation to the song (copyright) as separate from the recording (mechanical copyright?). There's likely variations in this from country to country.

As I see it, in simple terms:

Initial Track(s) submitted by client:

• Client owns song rights, and recording rights

Tracks recorded/produced by Engineer/Producer: 

• Eng/Prod owns recording rights, client owns song rights

Agreement for mix of Initial Track(s):

• For a monetary consideration (£/$) the final stereo mix rights in the recording are transferred to the client. The client retains his own song rights.

Any of the above rights can be negotiated BEFORE the agreement is made (in writing or verbally) as to who gains ownership of what rights - mechanical or copyright. What one 'expects' to be in the agreement is not part of the negotiation unless brought to the attention of both parties.


This is how I generally understand it, though my understanding of the law and some of the terms may not be precise. You can of course consult your favourite (favorite - US) lawyer if you can afford it :-)