If you install the complete waves pack it loses lots of my other plugins saying I have to reduce the number of plug ins as sonar can't handle it

What is your primary DAW PTheory? Is this Waves Mercury you are talking about- what version?

Primary DAW has traditionally been Sonar for the last 10 years but moving over to Ableton as  have these problems with Sonar

• No VST3 support - Can't handle all my plug ins
• Notation is still broken
• Latency issues are still very much present even with core supplied plug ins
• Audiosnap 2 I find it a horrible to work with the time stretching algorithm is terrible as is BPM detection on clips which makes remixing very hard work
• Audio Engine frequent drop outs and regular crashes

I really like the lay out and skylight but some of the above are very hard work to deal with on a regular basis

OK. Good luck on your musical adventure PTheory.

Ableton doesn't do VST3 or have any notation by the way 


You know SOnar actually has superb Izotope time strech algos- but you  need to use off-line mode.

PTheory


Primary DAW has traditionally been Sonar for the last 10 years but moving over to Ableton as  have these problems with Sonar

• No VST3 support - Can't handle all my plug ins
• Notation is still broken
• Latency issues are still very much present even with core supplied plug ins
• Audiosnap 2 I find it a horrible to work with the time stretching algorithm is terrible as is BPM detection on clips which makes remixing very hard work
• Audio Engine frequent drop outs and regular crashes

I really like the lay out and skylight but some of the above are very hard work to deal with on a regular basis

I'm a little confused.  You're using Ableton because of these issues?
 
 -   Ableton doesn't support Vst3
 -   Ableton doesn't have notation
 -   Not sure what your latency issues are, but many people seem to get Sonar to work with low latency, so think this could be improved on for you.
 -   I think this may be user error
 -   Again, I'm not experiencing this, nor are many others.  This should not be happening if Sonar is set up properly.

• Ableton 9 does support VST3 - just around the corner
• Neither does Sonar to speak of
• Latency is a sonar specific problem that has nothing to do with my PC.  I use kontakt a lot and sonar doesn't like it, no problems at all when using ableton.  I have had people crawling all over my machine including key users from this forum and the latency issues are only experienced by sonar - no other DAW
• Possibly but unlikely experienced user (10 years) it just isn't a slick process at all compared to ableton which just does it for you
• See point 3

I don't think you are an experienced user at all PTheory. You are simply spreading misinformation.

e.g.- Ableton has no plans for VST3, it is not "just around the corner"

PTheory

• Ableton 9 does support VST3 - just around the corner
• Neither does Sonar to speak of
• Latency is a sonar specific problem that has nothing to do with my PC.  I use kontakt a lot and sonar doesn't like it, no problems at all when using ableton.  I have had people crawling all over my machine including key users from this forum and the latency issues are only experienced by sonar - no other DAW
• Possibly but unlikely experienced user (10 years) it just isn't a slick process at all compared to ableton which just does it for you
• See point 3

 -  Just plain untrue
 -  What can I say?  It's not great, but it is INFINITELY more than Ableton, as Ableton has none at all
 -  I never said it was to do with your PC, but perhaps with how you have set up Sonar and its buffer settings etc.  I, and many others don't have latency problems with Sonar, but YOU do.  What else can it be?
 - The number of years you've been doing something does not equate with ability or knowledge.  See post above about off-line mode.
 - See point three and four.
 
 
What I have never understood about posts like this that blame Sonar is how many other people who use Sonar don't seem to have these problems.  It cannot be Sonar, if I and many others get it working happily. 

Ableton and Sonar are two very different beasts. i acknowledge there are things that Ableton does better than Sonar, but it's a very limited list applicable to very socialized production styles and live performance.

Waves plugins can be buggy...