mudgel


Clearly the diversity of opinion about what constitutes the best way of doing things puts Cakewalk's coders in a position where they can't please everyone.

I've stopped fighting SONAR and decided to just do it the way it works. If I get too unhappy I'll go somewhere else. In the meantime I can do more with each new version than I could do before so that must be progress.

Hi Mike...

I am forced to work the way they have designed of course... and I can't find anywhere else to go. Cakewalk has always been the place where I had my choice and where they allowed for different work methods... since the X generation, I am now being forced into work methods instead of being allowed to chose my own. Sure, we're always "forced" to work the way the programmers have provided, but Cakewalk has typically found ways to allow for more users' choice than anywhere else...

If we don't speak up about things we like or don't like, we have no chance to influence The Bakers' design choices...

As Beepster mentions above, I too wish they had spent more time on fixing bugs than on multi-touch support. I'd love to have it (I think), but it will be a long time until I can afford to buy a new monitor of any kind let alone touch supported...

This is something that would be an issue to me whether touch or not.... I cannot zoom the takes as large/small as I need... and with each passing release of X I can see less info on screen at any given time... Maybe if I could afford three monitors and figure a way to make them all reasonably accessible within my workspace, I might feel different...

I know there are a few with touch screens already and more will come... but leaving issues in the dust to support new features isn't my way of thinking... so I endeavor to catch the programmer's ear and help influence a better product with each version... I've seen this forever and even in the X2 release there are many items that came from users wishes...

X2 doesn't allow me to do more... only work differently... Some choices have made things better and some not. this matter is a case of the latter (for me)...

I'm not even asking to get rid of Lanes... Simply to address issues that are difficult for me (and others) if I must use them.

Personally I was much happier with layers... I will get my work done either way but with how much joy? I would go back and do my editing in 8.5.3 or even X1 then return to X2a for final mix... but that involves so may difficulties with plugins and such as the only major benefit I have in the X series are the PC plugins... Maybe I should have stayed with 8.5.3 and purchased 3rd party plugins as good as the PC devices? Too late for that now as I opted to trust The Bakers... I'm far too poor to be able to adjust that decision now...

So with some of these thoughts in mind, please understand that I do "get along" with what they give me, but have a need to voice my opinions, concerns, and needs in the hope of improvement (for me?)...

I understand that the programmers can't please everyone, but as we had layers for so long and so many were pleased with them (outside of bugs that needed fixing), giving them up for an alternate methodology has alienated quite a few and un-necessarily. They could have implemented a choice between Lanes and Layers just as they did with Envelope editing.... (and tha's a whole other issue for me)

Happy Holidaze and Merry Xmas to you and all here... May you all be rockin' it in for the New Year with Cakewalk!

Keni

Beepster


I have a feeling we aren't going to see any significant changes to the lanes until X3. I've got a lot of good suggestions for them but I'm not going to type them up in here yet again. Frankly I'm disappointed that they seemed to have put most of the focus on all that Win8 stuff and didn't fix some of the more meat and potatoes stuff. Also seems a lot of folks are having new troubles with the patch (I'm assuming all the new Win8 stuff is screwing up what was already there and working).

Anyway... that's my rant on the patch. I'll just wait for the next one because I don't think this ones gonna solve the issues I personally have.

@TheSteven... What I have been doing to convert lanes to tracks is just cloning the entire track then clicking the little x (delete lane) button to get rid of the ones I don't want. This has been very useful for my method of comping. Essentially after I'm done tracking a bunch of takes I go back and listen to them one by one in relation to the mix, make elaborate notes on everything (the notes section is AWESOME and I don't know how I managed without them now), clone the track then purge everything else. I do this because trying to comp in the same track makes the clips not blend properly for some stupid reason so in a solo section or whatever I'll have three or four of that segment to choose from and they get their own track and I make my final decision from there. This method does make it a real pain when it comes to mixing and applying effects though because I haven't fully mastered saving and loading entire channel strip presets. I have to get everything as close to how I want it BEFORE the clone and then be very aware of any adjustments I make. The FX part is easy because if I change something on one and want the rest to match it I can just drag that effect instance from the first bin into the others. It's the PC modules I'm have a hard time with transferring over so I tend to do that stuff in a bus that all the related tracks are sent to and leave the track PC more or less as is. This does have one benefit though. It means I'm paying REALLY close attention to each individual clip so if one part is getting slight washed out I am more likely to make some fine adjustments to make it fit.

...

Well... that turned into a much longer post than I intended. lol

Hi, guys. ;-)

Hi Beepster...

Sadly, I agree... That is my sadness here. I now expect no chance at any fixes/changes to Lanes for at least six months.... maybe longer (never?) and I find very little other than a few minor bug fixes (meters are working again and no extra lanes being created when I record) in the X2a release. the big push to be the first with multi-touch support seems to be what X2a is (mostly) all bout....

I hope you have a very Happy Holidaze... Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year!

Rock It In!

Keni

Beepster


@TheSteven... What I have been doing to convert lanes to tracks is just cloning the entire track then clicking the little x (delete lane) button to get rid of the ones I don't want. This has been very useful for my method of comping. Essentially after I'm done tracking a bunch of takes I go back and listen to them one by one in relation to the mix, make elaborate notes on everything (the notes section is AWESOME and I don't know how I managed without them now), clone the track then purge everything else. I do this because trying to comp in the same track makes the clips not blend properly for some stupid reason so in a solo section or whatever I'll have three or four of that segment to choose from and they get their own track and I make my final decision from there. This method does make it a real pain when it comes to mixing and applying effects though because I haven't fully mastered saving and loading entire channel strip presets. I have to get everything as close to how I want it BEFORE the clone and then be very aware of any adjustments I make. The FX part is easy because if I change something on one and want the rest to match it I can just drag that effect instance from the first bin into the others. It's the PC modules I'm have a hard time with transferring over so I tend to do that stuff in a bus that all the related tracks are sent to and leave the track PC more or less as is. This does have one benefit though. It means I'm paying REALLY close attention to each individual clip so if one part is getting slight washed out I am more likely to make some fine adjustments to make it fit. 

Thanks for the info.  Its always insightful to see what techniques others are using.
Still learning how to get around with multiple take lanes. Just figured out that I can lasso a bunch of lanes then by holding down the Ctrl key & double clicking on the header bar/title bar of one of the takes select the group of takes for mass splitting, trimming, fading, etc.
  At the moment I avoid using PC on tracks with multiple take lanes, I think I remember something about X2 adding the ability to save all the settings used on a ProChannel track, but if so, I still need to figure it out. 

Beepster

the notes section is AWESOME and I don't know how I managed without them now

Are you talking talking about using Project/Info...?

TheSteven

Beepster


@TheSteven... What I have been doing to convert lanes to tracks is just cloning the entire track then clicking the little x (delete lane) button to get rid of the ones I don't want. This has been very useful for my method of comping. Essentially after I'm done tracking a bunch of takes I go back and listen to them one by one in relation to the mix, make elaborate notes on everything (the notes section is AWESOME and I don't know how I managed without them now), clone the track then purge everything else. I do this because trying to comp in the same track makes the clips not blend properly for some stupid reason so in a solo section or whatever I'll have three or four of that segment to choose from and they get their own track and I make my final decision from there. This method does make it a real pain when it comes to mixing and applying effects though because I haven't fully mastered saving and loading entire channel strip presets. I have to get everything as close to how I want it BEFORE the clone and then be very aware of any adjustments I make. The FX part is easy because if I change something on one and want the rest to match it I can just drag that effect instance from the first bin into the others. It's the PC modules I'm have a hard time with transferring over so I tend to do that stuff in a bus that all the related tracks are sent to and leave the track PC more or less as is. This does have one benefit though. It means I'm paying REALLY close attention to each individual clip so if one part is getting slight washed out I am more likely to make some fine adjustments to make it fit. 

Thanks for the info.  Its always insightful to see what techniques others are using.
Still learning how to get around with multiple take lanes. Just figured out that I can lasso a bunch of lanes then by holding down the Ctrl key & double clicking on the header bar/title bar of one of the takes select the group of takes for mass splitting, trimming, fading, etc.
At the moment I avoid using PC on tracks with multiple take lanes, I think I remember something about X2 adding the ability to save all the settings used on a ProChannel track, but if so, I still need to figure it out. 

Beepster

the notes section is AWESOME and I don't know how I managed without them now

Are you talking talking about using Project/Info...?

I think Beepster is referring to take lanes comments.  If you click on the blank part of the take lane to the right of the widgets, you can add comments to each lane e.g. Good Take, Keeper, Sh!t Intonation Etc. Very useful. 

Sorry to be at it again... Please ignore me but I need to vent...

So here's my rant...

lanes are currently my biggest nemesis in X2a. for all it's beauty and power in so many ways, the issues with lanes cause me unlimited frustration in my work...

All too often I need the lanes exposed so I can quicly access the various takes while working on other tracks (solo to confirm parts etc.)... they take up so much room that I can't even keep a fairly basic project on screen... and trying to record tracks with more lanes drives even more tracks off screen...

I just can't manage to state my discomfort with them at this point in time. Every time I go to use them I'm struck with distaste.

I can only hope that The Bakers have some scheme up their sleeves to keep their precious Lanes (which some other users do like) yet give back a viable working environment to those of us who prefer a system more like the Layers approach of past... Maybe adapt the Track Lanes to work more like the Automation Lanes where they can have a "Layers" mode? <sigh>...

I'm probably dreaming.... They now write for a different generation's thinking...

A Sad User...

Happy New Year! (?)

Keni

Truly I'm lost, what is the problem with take lanes compared to layers? I know before the X2a update there were bugs, but, in terms of functionality, I just don't see the problem.

What is it? Or are they? 

STinGA


Truly I'm lost, what is the problem with take lanes compared to layers? I know before the X2a update there were bugs, but, in terms of functionality, I just don't see the problem.

What is it? Or are they? 

I don't get it either, it seems like Keni's point seems to be (and I'm paraphrasing here) "lanes are impossible to use because I can't make them the size I want." If that's the last complaint about Take Lanes, then there's already been huge progress from X2 to X2A and I'd call it a resounding success. Adjusting zoom/view settings would be an easy thing for Cakewalk to address in a future update. Once I figured out how to promote lanes by using the mute tool, it made comping takes together a breeze. So while I think there's some room for improvement, I'm actually quite happy with lanes.

There are still bugs in Take lanes in X2a, for what it's worth. 

Here's an issue I've been experiencing -- and I've just added a video to demonstrate the problem:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2745484

Funkybot

STinGA


Truly I'm lost, what is the problem with take lanes compared to layers? I know before the X2a update there were bugs, but, in terms of functionality, I just don't see the problem.

What is it? Or are they? 

I don't get it either, it seems like Keni's point seems to be (and I'm paraphrasing here) "lanes are impossible to use because I can't make them the size I want." If that's the last complaint about Take Lanes, then there's already been huge progress from X2 to X2A and I'd call it a resounding success. Adjusting zoom/view settings would be an easy thing for Cakewalk to address in a future update. Once I figured out how to promote lanes by using the mute tool, it made comping takes together a breeze. So while I think there's some room for improvement, I'm actually quite happy with lanes.

Hi Guys...

It's many issues both design and bug...

As far as design?

Due to making the buttons a fixed size and always accessible, Lanes don't get small enuf to fit much data on screen with big projects...

Zooming them larger also has a severe restriction (why?) in vertical height and I find it difficult to see/edit my data well...

If I need to see Lanes along with an entire project, I frequently can't get enuf data on screen at one time as the lanes are taking even more screen sapce than a track which can be minimized, yet still seen.

The "wasted" track space tends to make my screen appear much more confusing for me to read and I constantly confuse track/lane controls because of this... Maybe making the take lanes (controls) a different color might aid in this last respect...

Bugs? There are the crazy extra-clips-deleted which VariousArtist has well  documented.

The creation of extra, empty Lanes if loop recording without first opening lanes... Not deadly, but a pain to always have to do all the extra deleting...

I'm not too awake yet, so my list is short as I struggle to remember who I am this morning... ;-)

Happy New Year!

Keni