Jimbo 88

MelodicJimmy


Dear Cakewalk, I HATE Apple. With a passion. I don't like Macs. I think they're overrated. I love Sonar. I really do. But, I'm sorry, Macs have one thing going for them: Logic Pro 9. And, what's so great about Logic Pro 9? What sets it apart from Sonar? AMAZING NOTATION. So, what is it with you people? It's almost 2013. Why can't you just either develop a great notation interface within Sonar OR get together with a notation company, such as Sibelius and let THEM do the notation part. I'd GLADLY pay more for Sonar upgrades if it had a fantastic notation system. When I say "fantastic notation system," I mean completely the opposite of what you guys have now. I mean, it really, completely SUCKS. It's terrible. It's a nightmare to use. I've made this post before, I know. I'm also not sorry. Your notation REALLY sucks. As a customer, I'd like to see this fixed.

YES   TOTALLY AGREE!
 
 
The funny thing is I watch my children go thru school and attend many music concerts.  I see hundreds upon hundreds of kids who learn to read music at some level at all different grades.   There must be a way to tap into this market.  I hear people say well Sonar is a recording and mixing application....well it is a sequencing application 1st and what better way to introduce this music recording application then thru composition and music notation/seqencing. Here is a big market of young consumers who have already have some basic training related to your product.  You just need to make the notation work at a usable level.  It does not need to be "Sibelius/Finale" alternatives.
 
I've said this before....How we record/sequence music will change with technology.  The "DAW" could most likely be history in 10 years.  Just as multitrack tape machines and ADATS and Cassettes and CDs.   But what will be the link between new technology and music??   
 
NOTATION!!!          
 
Do you want a product/company that will survive the long haul?  Pay attention to what will still be around after the dust settles.

Yes!  Sonar was a sequencing program way before it was an audio program.  Notation is a vital part of sequencing if you need harmony, counterpoint and/or voice leading.  

As with the other thread on this same topic, I agree with all that is said. I'm a strong advocate for good notation within a DAW environment for composition and writing purposes. You can't do proper harmony and counterpoint without "looking" at the music in their staves.

I've been reading this thread carefully. Other than noynekker, no one actually stated down clearly WHAT changes/ improvements we want Cakewalk to make in the current Sonar SV. Let's make this thread more constructive. Instead of just saying "improve!", let's create a list of the exact functionality we want to see improved or changed compared to the current Sonar X2a Staff View. And let's be realistic as well. As some have said, we don't need Finale/Sibelius functionality. For that, we'll just purchase those products! Let's list down exactly what functions within SV that can changed/added so that our workflow as composers/song-writers can be improved within Sonar. All we need is composition/ arrangement workflow improvement, not full notation functionality. 

Perhaps being more constructive will help the guys at Cakewalk to know exactly how to help the end-users. Otherwise, this thread, like the other one, will just disappear into the background as noise and chatter.

Roll-on guys!

I also use Sonar to arrange music for a small woodwind/brass section.

While I don't use Staff View to enter notes (I record them via midi track / edit via PRV) - I use Staff View to look at the arrangement. I would print them out for a few rehearsals till the arrangement is done.

Workflow improvement :

1. For printing, it would be good to have an option to compress empty / less busy bars. A regular score printed with Sonar would be around 3 or 4 pages. But if I export XML Music to Notion 3 (yet to upgrade to 4) the printout is normally less than 2 pages. Ideally, I would like to export only the final arrangement into Notion for touch up. But I have to do it at every revision now - so the players need not flip pages unnecessarily.

1b. Small matter - to enable user to change the title of the print out. It is now defaulted to filename+ ".cwp"

2. Fix the triplet (with rests). I think this is a known issue. Currently, I would have to tell my players or I would have to get the music into Notion, edit the triplets and print it from there - for every revision.

I submit these as feature request - every few months or so since I got X1.

My rough guess is that the source code for the notation view is completely undocumented, and the guy who wrote it is long gone.

vintagevibe


People on the Notion forum have tried it and state that it works with Sonar X2 64bit.

Thanks - if that goes for midi - not just audio - nice. Good enough reason to update my 8.5.3.

@lfm : just tried it and yes it works 64/64 bits in nall their glory.

Cheers,
Jerry

@joakes :

Which one did you test ?

1. Record midi in Sonar, rewire midi output to Notion 4 to show score
(I really want this)

or

2. Note entry in Notion 4, midi output to Sonar for sound ?
(if it supports 1 and 2, would be totally great !)

joakes


@lfm : just tried it and yes it works 64/64 bits in nall their glory.

Cheers,
Jerry

Thanks a million - good news.

It seems that price also is adjusted to more than affordable. More in level with todays software products.

tomixornot


@joakes :

Which one did you test ?

1. Record midi in Sonar, rewire midi output to Notion 4 to show score
(I really want this)

or

2. Note entry in Notion 4, midi output to Sonar for sound ?
(if it supports 1 and 2, would be totally great !)

I want what you want - it's a mystery really that notation software implement rewire - but forgot about midi - which really is what you need.

Rewire notation software in - checkmark the midi tracks you want to process - and done, just about.

Kev999

chefmike8888

And for the record, I do know how to read music. I just have no need for it in my recording program. Mike 

I used to say that too.  But I eventually tried using SV and found it to be useful, not as a substitute for PRV, but as a supplement.  If you've got two screens, try opening both views together.  Maybe you will see what I mean.

Ok Kev. I'll give it a try.
And let me state my thoughts differently.


I wish Cakewalk would put out Sonar and allow you to 'custom build' it in a way that allows you to choose which components you want and work best for your work flow.


Mike