UPDATE:  I've added a video to demonstrate the issue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsfmG2On6k
 
 
 
Original Message:
I installed the X2a patch and instantly welcomed the updates and fixes that I saw, including the supported touch gestures.  Then I sat down to do a brand new project, starting with one of the templates for 16 tracks with the console emulator, and as I began to record a few takes I came upon some serious issues with lanes.  I mean beyond the point of usable and even scary...

Here are the steps:
- Launch Sonar X2a
- Create new project using 16-track console template
- Import WAV file of a song I had sketched out
- Armed one track for recording
- Began recording takes, with frequent stops and restarts of the song between takes
- Cloned track to copy FX setup (but no clips or events were cloned)
- Recorded a few more takes, muting some and leaving others untouched

This is where the issues began:
- I noticed a couple of take lanes had two overlapping clips whereas other lanes were empty
- I moved overlapping clips to the empty lanes but they jumped to other lanes, much further away from the target
- I removed some takes by hitting the small X delete button, but sometimes a different take would be deleted
- The more I tried to move, edit, comp...the more issues I ran into


Now I have to believe that other people are not seeing these issues so easily and frequently as I did, but then again I'm working on a brand new project in a fairly clean environment on a dedicated DAW running Sonar X2a (x64) on Windows 8.  It's a recently built PC with an Intel i7 CPU and 16GB RAM, and my sound card is a Roland QuadCapture (not that this should really make any difference).

I'm in a bit of a quandary here.  I was prepared to just move on exclusively with X2a, having spent much of my last album jumping between X1 and 8.5 just because I needed to overcome new workflow issues that I found wanting in X1 (for me).  But with new recordings as well as existing projects I decided to stick with X2a, and now I am stuck at the first hurdle. 

I'm hoping it's just an anomaly, but either way I think I'll be contacting Cakewalk and sending them this new project so they can look into it.  It would just be interesting to know if anyone else has seen anything like this...

CWBRN-14119

Hi Peter...

First let me compliment you on the subject line... I wish I thought of that! ;-)

Sorry you're having such a bad time.... I don't like the Take Lanes and have many issues with them, but I haven't experienced anything like what you're talking about (yet?) in either X2 or X2a...

In X2, I was getting soloed extra empty lanes, but that seems gone...

I do a lot of cloning in the manner you report... I'll try some again looking for any hint of this. Maybe I haven't tried since X2a? I'm pretty sure I did...

Keni

Keni


Hi Peter...

First let me compliment you on the subject line... I wish I thought of that! ;-)

Sorry you're having such a bad time.... I don't like the Take Lanes and have many issues with them, but I haven't experienced anything like what you're talking about (yet?) in either X2 or X2a...

In X2, I was getting soloed extra empty lanes, but that seems gone...

I do a lot of cloning in the manner you report... I'll try some again looking for any hint of this. Maybe I haven't tried since X2a? I'm pretty sure I did...

Keni

 
Thanks Keni, I notice you share some of the pain with regards to a preference for the old workflow of using layers versus lanes.   But as you can tell that this time around there are some bugs with lanes for which there are no practical workarounds.  Okay, I went into X1 to try and resolve some of the issues by resorting to using the old style of editing layers, but it's not practical because of all the warnings that occur when opening the project due to plugins that are only licensed for X2.  This means repeatedly clicking "OK" to remove the warning -- over 50 times in this particular small project (because I used the Console Emulator template).
 
Anyway, I have put together a video to demonstrate the issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsfmG2On6k
 
Btw, although you appreciated the title of the thread, I changed it.  My goal was to draw attention to the issue to see if we could identify some common cause and get it fixed, and I realized later that my off-the-cuff title might not be conducive to that goal.  I love Sonar and have done many great projects with it.  But I really need to get the lanes issue I'm experiencing fixed.  Ultimately though I want layers back -- for me, it is a far superior workflow for the kinds of editing and comping I do, and there was nothing on the market that could touch it.

VariousArtist

Keni


Hi Peter...

First let me compliment you on the subject line... I wish I thought of that! ;-)

Sorry you're having such a bad time.... I don't like the Take Lanes and have many issues with them, but I haven't experienced anything like what you're talking about (yet?) in either X2 or X2a...

In X2, I was getting soloed extra empty lanes, but that seems gone...

I do a lot of cloning in the manner you report... I'll try some again looking for any hint of this. Maybe I haven't tried since X2a? I'm pretty sure I did...

Keni

 
Thanks Keni, I notice you share some of the pain with regards to a preference for the old workflow of using layers versus lanes.   But as you can tell that this time around there are some bugs with lanes for which there are no practical workarounds.  Okay, I went into X1 to try and resolve some of the issues by resorting to using the old style of editing layers, but it's not practical because of all the warnings that occur when opening the project due to plugins that are only licensed for X2.  This means repeatedly clicking "OK" to remove the warning -- over 50 times in this particular small project (because I used the Console Emulator template).
 
Anyway, I have put together a video to demonstrate the issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsfmG2On6k
 
Btw, although you appreciated the title of the thread, I changed it.  My goal was to draw attention to the issue to see if we could identify some common cause and get it fixed, and I realized later that my off-the-cuff title might not be conducive to that goal.  I love Sonar and have done many great projects with it.  But I really need to get the lanes issue I'm experiencing fixed.  Ultimately though I want layers back -- for me, it is a far superior workflow for the kinds of editing and comping I do, and there was nothing on the market that could touch it.

Hi Peter...

Yes... We share the same opinion here for sure. I have exactly the same thoughts and experiences regarding the use of Lanes vs. Layers and trying to go back to X1 to work around it... it's so much trouble either way that I feel sniffled...

I too have done many great projects with Sonar over the years... and there are many features I do like about X1/X2.... Lanes is most definitely NOT one of them and is a severe step backwards for me... So many issues that it makes the bugs with Layers appear bug free! ;-)

Now not even Sonar can touch Sonar 8.5.3! ;-)

Happy New Year!

Keni

Hi Peter, Keni . . . I've just finished a session of recording multiple vocal takes using lanes, then comping, and had no problems.
However, I'm not using the lanes function in the same way Peter describes.

Whenever I had overlapping clips, I slip edited them.
I never moved or copied takes to other lanes, I just split the clips, and muted the clips I didn't want to hear.
I never deleted any clips, just muted ones I didn't want to hear.

Not suggesting your method is flawed, because lanes obviously have some troubles in X2a, but I was looking at the online Sonar manual about lanes, and I'm not sure you're supposed to move/drag clips from one lane to another.
Seems like making "clip groups" is important to the comping process, as well as using the "isolate tool" to keep or reject certain takes.
I'm hoping someone with more experience will have more insights to the use of the lanes/comping feature of Sonar X2

I use the method described @ 2:35 in the new CakeTV X2 take lane video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbiRKPYderY

Yes scook . . . thanks, this video helps to clarify the process.

noynekker


I was looking at the online Sonar manual about lanes, and I'm not sure you're supposed to move/drag clips from one lane to another.

You could be right, and that is LAME.  Layers allowed us to do that, so we could comp clips from multiple tracks in one track.  Lanes mean a loss of functionality.

Maybe I'm missing something but I just created a new project in x2a, created one audio track and recorded a few takes. This created lanes.

Then I opened the lanes and split clips. Created a new lane and copied the clip into it. Then copied the clip to an existing lane. I did nothing special just used the smart tool and click and drag. I also tried the copy and paste that indeed does not allow you to past to a different take lane.

But if you split on the snap settings at least initially then you can drag the clip to any lane you wish even if they overlap then slip edit if you wish.
 
I do not generaly do this I follow a work flow close to the one in the lane video for comping.

Even so I generally clone the track then mute and archive one copy and save the project before any comping. Just paranoid I guess.