@jbow... You don't know how much I needed to hear that today, man. I'm feeling a little battered from some nasty remarks downstairs this morning. You're good peeps yourself and it's always a pleasure chatting with you. :-)

@Danny and others - I completely agree that if anything CAN be coded to survive some of the crashes, then I am by all means for it.

I also regret that someone got so frustrated that they left.

I also feel that there a lot of individual-computer specific problems caused by installation issues, usage issues, driver issues, and plugin issues.

I am here to help anybody I can resolve as much as they can.

Bob Bone

People shouldn't feel guilty that they can't get Sonar to meet their expectations. Compared to other DAW programs you kind of do have to meet it half way. 

Life is too short to get upset by it and the DAW market has many options. Have a look around and find something that works for you and your computer. You may have to make some compromises but you will most likely find something that's a close fit to the way you want to produce music.

Jaron Lanier, who, apart from other interests, is also a musician, has written a very interesting book 'You are not a gadget'. I have only just started reading it but his comments on the wisdom of crowds being no such thing are firmly refuted by the contents of this thread. Although constructive criticism has been made regarding Sonar in this thread, some of the posts have done so with such grace and dignity that I was deeply touched to read them. I would very much like to renew my acquaintance with Sonar in the future and can only hope that the dedicated team of Bakers read this - and other - threads, and evaluate some competing products to get a clearer picture of why - perhaps - Sonar is not quite so resilient in a wide range of computer environments. When they have had a chance to address the underlying issues, I look forward to evaluating a future release, perhaps X3. I hope, in addition, that by then, users of the VS-700 who have endured a lot of issues with recent releases, will have seen their problems addressed. This would certainly give many us more confidence, I think, to perhaps return to the fold at some future date.

Or use crystal meth... just don't plug in too many VSTs...

I usually stay away from threads like this because whenever I give my opinion I get labeled a "fanboi", but I guess I'm in the mood for some abuse....

I truly hate that some of you are having so many issues, and I wish I was smart enough to help you out. Which ever DAW you find that will work for you is the one you should use. We're all just in it for the music, there should never be any hard feelings because the pile of code I use is different from the pile you use.

But the fact is, I've been using SONAR since version 3 and with the exception of a period of time when I was using a crap computer I've had minimal problems.
The pc I use now is an off the shelf HP, no special build or anything like that. I'm not an IT guy and I don't do tweaks, I'm just a guitar player. I just try like hell not to put anything weird or shady on my machine (not saying anybody here does, just sayin')
I have added memory (16 gigs) to my pc, and I use 3 different drives (one for programs, one for audio, one for samples and such). I try to keep my drivers up to date, but I don't use anything "cutting edge", no beta drivers or programs, etc. My interface is firewire and my pc doesn't have a TI firewire chipset.
I bought the best interface I could afford, after doing a lot of research and price shopping. I only use plug ins from established, reputable vendors. And although I'm running the 64 bit version of SONAR I use a lot of 32 bit plug ins.
My pc is hooked up to the internet and a wireless home network with a printer, two video game consoles, a DVR, and a TV.
I use a midi keyboard controller and a Behringer control surface.
Most of my projects are anywhere from 30 to 50 tracks with audio and soft synths and lots of plug ins. And I do a fair amount of live band recordings recording up to 12 tracks at a time.

I almost NEVER have any crashes, and when I do I've found they're usually caused by operator error.

I'm not saying all this to refute anything anybody else says or to be a smartass. I don't want to butt heads with anybody. I truly believe the folks who have problems are genuine in what they say and I hope they can get SONAR working for them or can find a DAW that is everything they look for and that makes them happy.

I just wanted to point out that it is possible to have SONAR work in a steady, reliable fashion without spending big bucks on a special build or doing some kind of voodoo incantations every time you fire the thing up.
And I certainly mean no disrespect to people like Jim who make such fabulous machines (wish I could afford one)

Happy New Year folks, hope the coming year is full of happiness and great music for you all.

rscain


I usually stay away from threads like this because whenever I give my opinion I get labeled a "fanboi", but I guess I'm in the mood for some abuse....

I truly hate that some of you are having so many issues, and I wish I was smart enough to help you out. Which ever DAW you find that will work for you is the one you should use. We're all just in it for the music, there should never be any hard feelings because the pile of code I use is different from the pile you use.

But the fact is, I've been using SONAR since version 3 and with the exception of a period of time when I was using a crap computer I've had minimal problems.
The pc I use now is an off the shelf HP, no special build or anything like that. I'm not an IT guy and I don't do tweaks, I'm just a guitar player. I just try like hell not to put anything weird or shady on my machine (not saying anybody here does, just sayin')
I have added memory (16 gigs) to my pc, and I use 3 different drives (one for programs, one for audio, one for samples and such). I try to keep my drivers up to date, but I don't use anything "cutting edge", no beta drivers or programs, etc. My interface is firewire and my pc doesn't have a TI firewire chipset.
I bought the best interface I could afford, after doing a lot of research and price shopping. I only use plug ins from established, reputable vendors. And although I'm running the 64 bit version of SONAR I use a lot of 32 bit plug ins.
My pc is hooked up to the internet and a wireless home network with a printer, two video game consoles, a DVR, and a TV.
I use a midi keyboard controller and a Behringer control surface.
Most of my projects are anywhere from 30 to 50 tracks with audio and soft synths and lots of plug ins.

I almost NEVER have any crashes, and when I do I've found they're usually caused by operator error.

I'm not saying all this to refute anything anybody else says or to be a smartass. I don't want to butt heads with anybody. I truly believe the folks who have problems are genuine in what they say and I hope they can get SONAR working for them or can find a DAW that is everything they look for and that makes them happy.

I just wanted to point out that it is possible to have SONAR work in a steady, reliable fashion without spending big bucks on a special build or doing some kind of voodoo incantations every time you fire the thing up.
And I certainly mean no disrespect to people like Jim who make such fabulous machines (wish I could afford one)

Happy New Year folks, hope the coming year is full of happiness and great music for you all.

Hallo, rscain.
 
You raised several interesting points there, but one that particularly stood out to me - using an off the shelf HP without any tweaks.
 
One of my students, who, in a previous life was a programmer and IT specialist, keeps telling me that the reason my DAW runs so smoothly is that it was all designed to work together, and I have not interfered with it too much.  That is why he thinks it runs so well.
 
Not my opinion, just his, but it has a ring of truth to it..
 
 Oh, I don't think my firewire card is TI chipset, either.

jb101

rscain


I usually stay away from threads like this because whenever I give my opinion I get labeled a "fanboi", but I guess I'm in the mood for some abuse....

I truly hate that some of you are having so many issues, and I wish I was smart enough to help you out. Which ever DAW you find that will work for you is the one you should use. We're all just in it for the music, there should never be any hard feelings because the pile of code I use is different from the pile you use.

But the fact is, I've been using SONAR since version 3 and with the exception of a period of time when I was using a crap computer I've had minimal problems.
The pc I use now is an off the shelf HP, no special build or anything like that. I'm not an IT guy and I don't do tweaks, I'm just a guitar player. I just try like hell not to put anything weird or shady on my machine (not saying anybody here does, just sayin')
I have added memory (16 gigs) to my pc, and I use 3 different drives (one for programs, one for audio, one for samples and such). I try to keep my drivers up to date, but I don't use anything "cutting edge", no beta drivers or programs, etc. My interface is firewire and my pc doesn't have a TI firewire chipset.
I bought the best interface I could afford, after doing a lot of research and price shopping. I only use plug ins from established, reputable vendors. And although I'm running the 64 bit version of SONAR I use a lot of 32 bit plug ins.
My pc is hooked up to the internet and a wireless home network with a printer, two video game consoles, a DVR, and a TV.
I use a midi keyboard controller and a Behringer control surface.
Most of my projects are anywhere from 30 to 50 tracks with audio and soft synths and lots of plug ins.

I almost NEVER have any crashes, and when I do I've found they're usually caused by operator error.

I'm not saying all this to refute anything anybody else says or to be a smartass. I don't want to butt heads with anybody. I truly believe the folks who have problems are genuine in what they say and I hope they can get SONAR working for them or can find a DAW that is everything they look for and that makes them happy.

I just wanted to point out that it is possible to have SONAR work in a steady, reliable fashion without spending big bucks on a special build or doing some kind of voodoo incantations every time you fire the thing up.
And I certainly mean no disrespect to people like Jim who make such fabulous machines (wish I could afford one)

Happy New Year folks, hope the coming year is full of happiness and great music for you all.

Hallo, rscain.
 
You raised several interesting points there, but one that particularly stood out to me - using an off the shelf HP without any tweaks.
 
One of my students, who, in a previous life was a programmer and IT specialist, keeps telling me that the reason my DAW runs so smoothly is that it was all designed to work together, and I have not interfered with it too much.  That is why he thinks it runs so well.
 
Not my opinion, just his, but it has a ring of truth to it..
 
 Oh, I don't think my firewire card is TI chipset, either.

Hi jb,
 
I don't know if that's the reason, or if we're just a couple of really lucky guys. All I know is it ain't broke so I'm not gonna try to fix it!

Beepster


Hmm... Have you switched to X2 yet on your big rigs, Danny? I had to totally stop playback to insert, move stuff around or even make adjustments in the PC with X1. Now I seem to be able to do all that while the track is playing without any real problems. That to me was a major bonus. I know you were holding off (and for good reason... that's your living) but I found the new audio engine is rockin'. Still though there are other things I'd be concerned about if I were in your position. 

Just curious is all. Cheers, man and happy holidays.

Yeah Beeps, I have it installed on the work-horses. I too noticed the difference you mentioned, but when you run a few things at once with stuff going on in the background, though we have a near gapless audio engine, I'd still rather have one that never shuts down. It all depends what you try and run in real time and how intense the VSTi may be. Some of these new drum modules you get in say, Kontakt, have all their own effects running in them which really ramps up CPU. Just one of them is pretty intense on even a good system. Add a few, some keyboard modules and old audio engine spazzes from time to time. LOL!
 
Nah, I still have to stop the audio engine for certain things. Big module sample library loads and especially Steven Slate 4. I know that this is most likely an issue with Slate, but their support is un-responsive because they are making too many things at once. I know one of their beta testers really good. He told someone at the company about my issue, asked them to help me because I'm a friend and they still didn't lift a finger to help.
 
But that said, the issue I get with the module....only happens in Sonar. I've just found myself saying a lot more recently bro "it only happens in Sonar". Company I work for, AcmeBarGig. We released a new guitar plug called HeadCase. The owner claimed he tried like heck to get a developer version of Sonar to no avail. To this day, our plug takes 11 seconds to load in Sonar. Add another instance, that's 22 seconds before you see your project...and so on. All the other DAW's, not a problem.
 
This is the stuff I'm talking about. Why doesn't this stuff happen in the others? I can make things work in Adobe Audition for God sake that sometimes don't work right in Sonar. At times it reminds me of a chick that you have to tread softly with. Watch every little thing you say or she will explode on you. I don't like having to be so delicate. In the others...bring it in while it's running...smack it, change your audio drivers while audio is playing, punch it in the mouth, elbow it in the head...it won't crash, glitch or shut down. And I know less than 1/4 about those DAW's compared to what I know about Sonar.
 
That said, I don't like how those DAWs lack the things we have in Sonar. All my track templates and project templates are necessities. Stuff in pro channell...heck, even having a pro channel is awesome. So there are pro's and cons...but there are definitely mechanics and aesthetics in the others that seem like they are better in terms of the ease of use and being a bi more well-oiled.
 
Realistically speaking....and this is an honest question....I wonder if the things we speak about on here are the reasons some plug companies like UAD and VSTi' makers do not test on Sonar? It's not a priority to them for some odd reason or we're just not popular enough in the food chain for that? Whatever the case, we should probably fix that. Anyone working at Cake that finds out that a company (especially one like UAD) is not testing with us, should call and find out why as well as what needs to be done so that we're considered. Ever notice even ad's are not including Sonar now? Go on Sweetwater or some site that sells software. See how many times they name PT, Cubase, Logic, Ableton etc etc and Sonar doesn't show up. Sometimes I see Sonar...most times I do not. I think we're popular enough but maybe Cake needs to pay a fee to get a mention when software will work on it? Who knows in this corrupt world. Happy holidays to you too brother!
 
-Danny

I too have had next to zero crashes since 8.5.3 through now X2a, and have been using computers that I put together.  I am certainly no genius, but have tried to make sure that anytime I uninstall a version that I truly get rid of any traces, such as Registry entries and any program files.  It is a mystery to me why that all needs to be done manually at this point in computer software development technology.

Anyways, I keep the computers clean of any extraneous programs that run all the time for not much reason - like the Adobe auto-update and the Java auto-update programs, and that sort of thing, and I always make sure that the operating system is patch current with high priority patches.

About the only other thing I do is to give myself as much memory as possible, tempered by cost, but always try to have a minimum of 8 GB on a 64-bit machine, and 5 GB from back when I was running 32-bit.

And when changing from one operating system to another, I always do a clean install - and make sure drivers exist PRIOR to switching, such as from XP to Win 7 and from Win 7 to Win 8.

The above steps have really been about it for me, and I have had stable Sonar environments since forever ago.

There are certainly bugs that I encounter, and have all along - it is the nature of the beast, but I have had now 4 or 5 different computers that have all run Sonar without any deluge of crashes.

I see soooo many times where people have crash after crash, such as with vladasyn's system, and my heart TRULY bleeds for them.  That would drive me crazy too.  It is for precisely this reason that I spend as much time as possible helping folks get through those kinds of problems whenever I can help.  Music is such an important thing to me - like breathing really - that I hate to see people stifled in their attempts to explore with the level of creative freedom that I have been so fortunate to have on my systems over the years.

I was actually reviewing some more detailed information she sent me on her system, and may be onto something there that will help her.  She is running 3 hard drives and probably powering her interfaces as well on her system, which only has a 300 watt power supply.  I have seen many cases of flaky behavior on systems with inadequate power.  HOPEFULLY, popping in a more powerful power supply will help her system stabilize.

Anyways - again I hate to see folks get so frustrated, and I will do my very best to help anybody through any suspected hardware/software problems for the rest of time.

Bob Bone