Not to play devils advocate here because I truly love Sonar and it IS my DAW of choice, but I have to agree with 2 of the posters here in what they have offered. The OP has been around a long time and to me, was a pretty respected member. I've see others depart for the same reasons. I also think AJ has legit gripes.

I've been using Cakewalk/Sonar since it was on floppy disks. Because of how you sometimes have to manipulate your system, Sonar to me, is a bit pickier than other DAW's. It truly is. If any of you haven't spent any time with anything else, you should just to see how they operate. We definitely have things in Sonar that I feel need to be improved as far as how it works on some systems. Some of the issues I get with Sonar, I do not get with the other DAW's I use. Nothing remotely close. You can't just say "yeah I've tried that DAW or this DAW". You have to live with a DAW for a while to really see for yourselves.

I'm not saying this to turn anyone off from Sonar, but as a long time user and loyal customer that owes major thanks to Sonar for the business I run as it is a major part of my lively-hood, I would seriously like to see it borrow from some of the other DAW's that are available due to them being a bit more stable in my opinion.

If you have used Studio One 2 for any length of time, you do not encounter any of the issues you may encounter with Sonar. That's not only an opinion, but a fact if you try it. The same with Reaper....there is something in those DAW's that just work differently. I don't know if it's because we have so many more bells and whistles or what the deal is, but I can't say that my trust in Sonar is what it once was. There was a time to where once I got everything configured and tweaked correctly, that I could work for hours and not worry about a crash.

These days, since we got into the X series, my hand is in a permanent ctrl+s stance. Yes this is good practice and what I should do anyway, but I don't get faded white screens in the other DAW's. I don't get certain plugins not working in other DAW's yet they don't work quite right in Sonar. I don't get audio engine drop-outs...and heck, in one of them, I can literally change my ASIO buffers while the damned thing is still playing audio! So listen....not everyone wants to be a tech and sit here trouble-shooting why they can't get Sonar to work.

No one should be flogged for not wanting to go down that road when there are other DAW's that allow you to just fire up, configure the basics and go. I've learned the stuff about pc's and configurations because.....you ready for this.....Sonar. The majority of tweaks and things that I've had to do on all the pc's I've ever owned were tweaks that allowed Sonar to run better. I sincerely don't believe that this should be a requirement for anyone. It should be a choice. And if it is a choice that one doesn't wish to make, they should move on to another DAW and I think the OP posted a rather nice fairwell message to be honest. Look at his post count. Anything close to 2000 shows a person has been here a while. Maybe he wasn't pc savvy enough to handle things? That would be his right, ya know?

Maybe he didn't have the desire to mess with things? Maybe he tried Reaper and it fired right up and worked and he actually got some work done for a change instead of messing with this, that and the other. Can we really blame a person for jumping ship when there truly ARE several variables that are needed to make Sonar work on some systems? I sure can't blame them. If I wasn't into this whole tech thing and didn't grasp it the way I have, rest assured I'd either go to one of the DAW's I mentioned...or I'd stick with my 24-track 2 inch machines. Seriously...think about some of the stuff that needs to be set up for a person and all the crap they have to go through just to make Sonar work sometimes. This to me, needs to be improved. I've tweaked nothing in the 2 DAWs I've mentioned. They worked on the first try and have never given me an ounce of trouble. That's not to say they are better...or I wouldn't be here. But they are more stable and more user friendly to get up and go with.

I'm a Sonar fan boy....I'm loyal, it is my DAW of choice and always will be until something turns me way off about it or I no longer wish to be a tweaker...but I'm also not afraid to speak what I feel is the honest to God truth about it when compared to the other DAW's I use.

-Danny

It is true. Sonar is quite finicky. I knew that coming into it so I accept it because it was just so much less expensive for the feature list. I was into Nuendo before and if I had the coin I probably would be again (or Cubase at least) but I don't. The nice thing though and what makes up for the finicky aspect is the support. I occasionally kvetch and moan but usually someone is there to help or I can find documentation somewhere that solves my issue and I couldn't be happier.

With the Steinberg stuff I was lost. Looking back I'm surprised I even managed to get it to do what I did. The nice thing is if I ever DO end up having a large amount of cash to spend on the higher end stuff Sonar and its user base has taught me far more than I could have ever accomplished on my own and I will certainly always keep a copy around because frankly... despite its quirks I just like the program. It's got character, yanno?

Peace.

Oh and I certainly don't fault anyone for switching DAWs or complaining about legit issues (I complain all the time)... I just don't get the whole going out guns blazing thing. Seems unnecessary. 

Danny, thank you for your post. I feel the same. I had Cakewalk 2 or 3 back in the day, then went with Logic Platinum, until Emagic was sold to Apple. I returned to Sonar at version 4 and the tweaking began. I had few issues with Logic back when my computer had 256 Mb of memory and 700Ghz clock speed. Then I built $4000 computer and was hoping it will work. Not exactly. I have been encouraged to switch to Apple and continue with Logic because it works. No tweaking- so I was told. I just afraid- I will miss tweaking.

No problem Vladasyn....I think the first step in making Sonar better is for we that truly love it...to no be afraid to talk about the problems it has. I wouldn't be here if I didn't love the program. And though some of my words may be harsh, as a paying customer for many years, I feel I have that right to voice those opinions without making the community feel I am attempting to turn people towards other DAW's. That is not my intention. I just would like to see Sonar borrow a few things that would make the DAW part of it more appealing than the bells and whistles.

Well, if it's any help to you...I've had to do a little tweaking with my MAC for Logic...and let me also say, the learning curve in Logic is a nightmare. That alone keeps me away from it to be honest. LOL! So you'll still have some tweaking to do....it depends on the person, your needs and the system you buy really. But for sure, the tweaks won't be anything remotely close to what you may have had to do in Sonar. I don't think switching is the answer though. MAC's are pricey and you have to learn an entirely new system.

You sound like me....I would miss the tweaking part. LOL! It's like the whole engineering field. Once I got good monitors and tuned them with ARC, the mixing challenge was no longer there. Not that I'm a great engineer or anything, but the challenges that stopped me from mixing a song were gone. Now it all seems so easy and takes hours instead of weeks or even months to get a good song ready. LOL!

I like the tweaking aspect and Sonar taught me a lot of what I know with pc's. Though this to me is a blessing, it's also been a curse because it's forced me to learn and touch things I probably shouldn't have. I've messed up too many things from tweaking that in reality, I shouldn't have messed with at all. I can't blame Sonar for that of course, but when you start messing with something while attempting to fix something, sometimes you eat the bear...other times the bear eats you! And that bear has eaten me too many times. Hahaha! :)

-Danny

The feature I would love them to borrow from Cubase is the online recording. You can connect with partner over the internet and record in real time. That would be awesome. We all could share our skills and do the sessions for each other.

Logic had learning curve, but it was- well- logical. lol. Sonar- for me is all on surface. It is too much stuff and it makes it hard to operate. My partner (mac user) always says- I am slow. I am kind of slow, but half of the session we have to fix Sonar, other half- figure out how to edit something. Simple things like deleting some parts and keep other parts are hard to do. I would say, "Why don't you play it over and record everything again", and he would want to keep some parts, and I have hadr time to move/copy paste parts. In Logic you highlight what you need, set cursor to the location, BAM and it copied. In Sonar- it copies things in to nowhere. After Copy operation you have to go look for your sample because it may be somewhere at the end of the song. Why did it go all the way to meassure 83? because there were 16 bars empty space which it counted as a sample- go find it and then try to move- even "select" does not work easy- it selects all samples, not each one or every other one- it is so confusing. You would only feel the difference when work in other DAWs. Also I will not say which once- right now I am not sure what to switch to.

In all seriousness, if you had major problems running every single version of Sonar (from v4 to X1), then I'd say the issue is very likely *not* Sonar.

 
I agree and I would suggest that you try one more thing... call and get some phone support from Jim. It isn't expensive and I think you would find out what is causing your problem in short order... before you give up on it. It works well for too many people. I think Jim could help you sort it out and that would be GOOD, don't you think?
 
Another thing that 'I think' I have noticed is that a LOT of problems arise when users of X1/X2 are using the 64bit version and 32bit plugs. I am not sure about this but staying ALL 64bit seems to make a difference. I've never used anything other than Cake so I have no point of reference but I am tempted to try a Studio One and Reaper just to see. I use VST drums and some VST keys but most everything else is audio. I wonder what the best DAW for thouse who use mostly audio is... though I am happy with Sonar, I still wonder. I have no inclination to try PT.
 
I really hope you find peace with some DAW.
J

Beepster


It is true. Sonar is quite finicky. I knew that coming into it so I accept it because it was just so much less expensive for the feature list. I was into Nuendo before and if I had the coin I probably would be again (or Cubase at least) but I don't. The nice thing though and what makes up for the finicky aspect is the support. I occasionally kvetch and moan but usually someone is there to help or I can find documentation somewhere that solves my issue and I couldn't be happier.

With the Steinberg stuff I was lost. Looking back I'm surprised I even managed to get it to do what I did. The nice thing is if I ever DO end up having a large amount of cash to spend on the higher end stuff Sonar and its user base has taught me far more than I could have ever accomplished on my own and I will certainly always keep a copy around because frankly... despite its quirks I just like the program. It's got character, yanno?

Peace.

Totally agree Beeps. If you've ever been on the other forums and see the lack of support...man, it turns you right off. Our community alone makes it worth while. Not to mention the many times Noel, Dan, Seth, Willy or one of the other Bakers has bailed me out personally. It kinda bothers me sometimes to "talk about their baby" just like it would bother me to talk about a good friend's child, ya know? But that said, if the intentions are good and the gripes are legit and explained correctly, there's really no fault in that.
 
I've sort of been forced to use a few other DAW's lately due to client preference for those particular jobs. So you get a chance to REALLY learn about a DAW that way instead of just messing with one. If I would have never been thrown into the others, I really wouldn't know any better than Sonar to be honest. I'm glad I've worked with the others though because it gives you a fresh look at another world so to speak and from doing a few projects, you can see the differences. It's also good to have a back-up DAW because you just never know. :)
 
But the first things I noticed were...no tweaks and the audio engine never dies and I don't have to be careful of what I do. I have this thing now with Sonar to where I feel the need to stop my playback for every thing I do. Most of my crashes come from adding plugs in real time or whatever. I can't use Steven Slate Drums to this day in Sonar without it crashing when changing presets. In every other DAW, not a problem. So as long as I stop playback in Sonar when using Slate Drums, I can change presets without a crash. Things like that are petty, but again...proof that things in Sonar are a little more delicate.
 
-Danny

Hmm... Have you switched to X2 yet on your big rigs, Danny? I had to totally stop playback to insert, move stuff around or even make adjustments in the PC with X1. Now I seem to be able to do all that while the track is playing without any real problems. That to me was a major bonus. I know you were holding off (and for good reason... that's your living) but I found the new audio engine is rockin'. Still though there are other things I'd be concerned about if I were in your position. 

Just curious is all. Cheers, man and happy holidays.

Beepster, FWIW... you are an inspiration. Take it for what it is worth.


J