Likewise, NI's Drummer series comes with 100's of excellent natural sounding MIDI grooves. I use and tweak them a lot. It's a pity they don't make more available for download. I really wish Battery came with a MIDI library, especially for some of the quirky speciality kits for which GM patterns just aren't going to do them justice. 

Well, the SlamTrak guys got back to me and I did get the packs I purchased. I get nervous sometime cuz everything is email and pay pal, there is no phone or address. I also browsed around to find information on them and everything was like a year old so I was hoping they didn't go out of business.  But I got the grooves and I am happy. They have some pretty cool stuff, each pack was $20. So cheap to find out. I already played with some of them, they specialize in Metal and Hard Rcok, they even have some "AC\DC" grooves which is way cool. And they sound pretty good.  I went back thru all of my groove mokeys stuff and found a folder full of fills from the Rock Essentials or the power rock packs. I guess I didn't pay attention to where they were installed.

What makes a hi hat sound natural? Obviously every hit can't be exactly the same velocity, and the timing may fluctual a bit. I have attempted to create grooves and can never get the hi hats exactly right. Like I said earlier, when other instruments are mixed in, they sound perfect, but for drum intro or a spot where there is just vocals and hi-hats, they sound mechanical to me.

Konradh: sometimes I have to do some "re-mapping" as well. Each hi hat in BFD has 9or 10 variations.

TraceyStudios

I looked for a MIDI discusion group, didn't see one, sorry if the is the wrong group to post in.  Where can I get MIDI grooves for drums which sound natural? I have purchased from Groove Monkey, however their grooves don't sound quit right. Still sound machine like. They are ok when you mix with other instruments, but when you hear them by themselves they don't sound quite right. I use BFD2, and the grooves included with it, most sound great and natural, problem is, where do I get more? What I need the most is fills, just tons of them. I can create a groove pretty easily by editing an existing groove and then looping it, however I have very few midi fills. I was looking at Platinum Samples, they look cool, may try  pack to see how they are. I have used some of the grooves included with Sonar, most seem ok. Any suggestions?

If you are looking for drum grooves/midi patterns that are odd tempo, I highly recommend oddgrooves.com .  They are not quantized and great for progressive rock, fusion and jazz.  You can also sign up for their free newsletter and get a new free oddgroove each month.

@ konradh - hey, you got the classic -what do you think?  I'm still saving the money to send you for it..
 
The grooves that come with EZ are very good.  You can buy them separately f very little but, as konradh said, they will need some remapping.  They also do pack of only fills.  All very good, played by top notch drummers.
 
I think EZ or Superior is worth getting for the sound too.

ok, I am really going to show my ignorance here, i see folks saying quantized. what does that refer to?

Let's say I slap out some drum parts on my pad controller. Being a human the hits are going to be slightly off no matter how good I play. I can use a program (like Sonar) that takes those hits and puts them in prefect time. That's called quantize.

It's a little more in depth than that but as far as I know that's the basic gist. If you open the Step Sequencer in Sonar you'll see a Quantize function (I think... it's been a while). The opposite of quantize is Humanize which makes the notes slightly off time.

Cheers.

To expand a little on what Beepster said, the quantize function just shifts all the notes to the nearest user-defined increment. For example, if you quantize something to 16th notes, it just takes every note and moves it exactly to the nearest 16th subdivision. So if your notes are a little off, it'll make the timing perfect. 

However, you may not want perfect, and like Beepster says you can shake things up a bit by using the "humanize" or "randomize" function. For example, if you use Cakewalk's quantize (the MIDI effect, not the one in the "process" menu) it gives you the option to randomize the quantize to a percentage of your choosing. If you want your beats to be tight but not robotic, you can set the randomize function at a small number like 1% and it will introduce a little timing variation - just a few ticks, not enough to throw things out of time. 

You can also use the quantize function to change the feel of a beat. For instance, I often write stuff that has a triplet feel, but most of the MIDI beats I have are straight 8ths or 16ths. If you quantize it to 8th or 16th triplets, it totally transforms the beat into a triplet feel. You can also add "swing," which gives the notes a dotted feel. 

so when Sharke referred to the midi groves as being "unquantized" (above), the midi notes are not directly on the beats? cool, i learned another detail!

Thanks!

TraceyStudios


so when Sharke referred to the midi groves as being "unquantized" (above), the midi notes are not directly on the beats? cool, i learned another detail!

Thanks!

yes - and it's not random, most of these loops are played by a drummer using an electronic kit, not programmed, the drummer is playing the groove, which gives the feel. For example the snare could be just before the beat for a driving feel or just behind for a laid back feel. This could lead on to a possible reason why you think they don't sound right, you have to pick a loop that has the right groove as well as the right pattern.
 
Another thing to consider is the tempo. For example, if the original loop was recorded at 140 BPM if you use it at a slower tempo the timing variations will  be greater and it can start to sound sloppy. If you slow down a midi drum loop sometimes you need to quantatise it slightly to make it feel right.
 
Don't forget you can also edit the loops once they are in the track, useful if you want to make a pattern less busy or use a different kit piece for some hits.
 
As for sources - Several people have posted favorable comments about Platinum Samples MIDI loops and the Steve Ferrone pack in particular. I only have their Military Cadence, which is excellent and far more useful that you would first imagine.