I could never figure out FL even back in the old days when it was just a glorified beat box. I am curious about Ableton. I've got a Light version that came with my Scarlett I'd like to check out but I'm a dinosaur by most standards so I should probably just stick to Sonar for now.

The one thing though is Hip Hop is a little different than the electronica/dance type stuff that makes Ableton so popular. Hip Hop is a little more repetitive and I think the sound quality is more important as it's roots are more steeped in R&B than anything. Essentially it doesn't need wicked fast changes and elements swelling in in out. It's more structured so Sonar and it's instruments/effects could indeed beat out those other programs if executed properly. 

On the fly live though Ableton seems to be king.

Of course this all merely based on what I've read and seen on the internet so it might be completely wrong.

Cheers.

Gah... so many typos. That's what I get for not wearing my glasses.

lulzoldguy!1

here is a very simple example of what I would like to be able to do simply in Sonar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwAHIDicQ3k

The first part of the video is easily done in Sonar using audio snap and SD3, minus the sequencing aspect. Needless to say that method probably only works for percussion and how one would easily do what happens beyond 3 minutes would be , imo, painstakingly tedious in Sonar.  Once again, maybe i am missing something.  I am not trying to bash, but learn.  I do realize this video is using a third party plugin and maybe that is the answer, but i was hoping to be able to replicate to some degree that workflow without third party plugins.

Only thing you need to get is a nice drum machine VST and some good drum samples.

Sonars drum vst is more for live sounding drums etc. I mean, you can do stuff with it, but you need some hip hop samples.

You can find some hip hop sounds in some of the softsynths that come in sonar if you start digging in and searching them.

I recommend native instruments Battery, the latest version of course, and some good hip hop samples.

Other than that, X2a is going to have a lot for you to work with.

You can always just place drums in the track view too if you have some good samples like Roland 808 and 909 sounds, just good kicks, snares, hats etc.

It is nice, and also standard to play drum parts though, and a vst drum machine (I'm talking software that you control with your keyboard controller, or any type of midi controller with keys or drum pads)

I just watched that whole thing and I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure all of that could be done with the Matrix in conjunction with the Loop Constructor and likely easier than that. Also you get the added benefit of seeing it recorded into the Track View for further editing. 

They made a bunch of enhancements to the Matrix in X2 that pretty much made it do everything it should have in the first place. Whether it all actually works or not I don't know but in the vids I've seen it's pretty darned flexible.

I got an email from FXpansion about Geist (I'm on their list because of my BFD purchase) and really to me it seems like a very basic sampler for folks who don't want to invest in a full fledged DAW. I'd check out all the vids on the Matrix for X2 and pop open the manual to really flesh it out. Frankly that vid looked more complex and rigid than the workflow in X2.

Again... not an expert but that's my impression. Cheers and good luck.

Oh and FBB (Karl) has a really nice vid on using the matrix on his youtube page. You should check that out. I'd imagine his SWA vids have more detail and they just happen to be on special for $20 if you haven't spent your $20 Cake bucks bonus. Cheers. 

Don't forget the Step Sequencer. I agree Battery 3 is the drum synth to get. It has the widest variety of sounds and it can be used to create Hip Hop to Classical music.

Its the most tweakable and useful drum synth around.


Between the Matrix, Step Sequencer, Loop Construction  and X2's editing ability there is nothing beyond its ability.  

Sonar had a demo song that was Hip Hop for Sonar 4. Make Love F War by Public Enemy. 

Sonar can do anything musical. 

Hey, John. You know more about this stuff. Take a look at that vid he posted and see what's happening in Geist. You'll probably be able to dissect it better than I can and offer Sonar based alternatives. To me it seems like Geist would be more difficult and limiting to work with but I just don't know enough to put it into words properly. The only thing I see that might be easier is when they split up the loop and the sections automatically map to the controller. Not sure if that can be done in Sonar. Cheers.

i have been making hip hop for almost 8 years and used Sonar the entire time (Sonar 4 - X2). I have been through all manner of hardware and software and can tell you the best workflow, and most practical workflow, is to use either Maschine or an MPC Rennaisance (or MPC Studio). Dedicated hardware/software cannot be beat when it comes to loading samples, chopping or sequencing. Forget Battery, forget Geist or stylus rmx... even forget traditional MPC's or ASR's (the limited memory and zero instant recall isnt worth it), if you are serious about it drop some money on one of the above. EDIT: Little clarification... Maschine and the Rennaisance are standalone, but I am talking about using them in conjunction with Sonar. My default template is set up with all maschines 16 outs routed to 16 tracks.

I dabble a lot with electronic beats/synth based music in Sonar. Some of it is quite involved when it comes to beats and harmony. I've never once thought that Sonar wasn't up to the task. Maybe other DAWs are better for the kid who just wants to knock stuff up quickly with the minimum of effort using pre-packaged building blocks, but if you're the kind of person who builds their songs from scratch and gets into the nitty gritty of editing MIDI parts note by note, then there is absolutely nothing lacking in Sonar in this respect. 

I started with Pro Tools and I can say that not only is Sonar way better for this kind of music, it's significantly easier to get a good sound, due to the stuff that's included in Sonar (Producer anyway). 


I think Fruity Loops and Ableton appeals more to the beginner who wants to get some cool beats up and running in the shortest time. Sonar probably takes longer to learn but it's worth the effort. 


I would also look into getting Reaktor for free - the paid version comes with a number of excellent groove boxes which are great for automating beats and percussion, and the Reaktor user library contains lots of cool free groove boxes and bass generators etc. 


+100 for Battery, and also for Massive.