perfectprint


i have been making hip hop for almost 8 years and used Sonar the entire time (Sonar 4 - X2). I have been through all manner of hardware and software and can tell you the best workflow, and most practical workflow, is to use either Maschine or an MPC Rennaisance (or MPC Studio). Dedicated hardware/software cannot be beat when it comes to loading samples, chopping or sequencing. Forget Battery, forget Geist or stylus rmx... even forget traditional MPC's or ASR's (the limited memory and zero instant recall isnt worth it), if you are serious about it drop some money on one of the above. EDIT: Little clarification... Maschine and the Rennaisance are standalone, but I am talking about using them in conjunction with Sonar. My default template is set up with all maschines 16 outs routed to 16 tracks.

Great post and is a great way to go I was going to suggest the same thing but wasn't sure if he was up for dropping that kind of coin on it. +1 for Maschine

Hip hop workflow is really a personal thing but here is a way a lot of people work. He is using Logic but the process is primarily the same 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BgQH084ZN4

In hip hop drums are king followed by melody and vocals 

I've been blending, "hip hop, rock and dance," for years. 

1.  You have to be weary of synthesizer presets. ( most are geared to trance, rave, and dubstep. )

2.  You have to be weary of drums that are synthesizers.  You really need, "a sampler."  ( I believe battery was mentioned )

3.  Sonar is the perfect environment for vocals.  ( That's obvious )

4.  A hip hop beat is nothing more than a downtempo rock beat.  ( This should help significantly. )

5.  The bass is the hardest part.  Getting excellent, and fat, and not muddy bass!!  You be surprised how difficult this is.  ( Trance, rave, dubstep, ) all the other bass is easy!!   But in hip hop, the bass sits below the kick drum..  its very, very hard to do.   Especially, when a lot of the synth presets, "suck."  You really have to get in there, "an design your own bass."

Aside from the five things I mentioned, I'd also like to make aware, "sampling beats, and breaks."  However, do to the amount of typing involved, I will have education partner Google, explain that...

  Big thanks to all those offering advice. I have been looking at maschine. Again, I know how to make hip-hop in Sonar. I have made hip-hop on everything from my old HR16 to Sony Acid. This is mostly for my son since he and his friends find Sonar to be less intuitive for hip-hop. I think certain styles are easier in Sonar than others. Making trap eats is actually pretty straightforward and the step sequencer actually shines in that area. After reading all the replies and digging a little deeper (not to mention messing around with my son's fl studio), I think the voices that mention battery and other quality samplers are on to something. When I do occasionally dabble in hip-hop, I find myself most comfortable using Shortcircuit and building the beat ei9ther in piano roll or step sequencer. I kind of give up on SD# for hip hop, although i do find it useful for other genres. needless to say my attention short son and his friends are not messing with short circuit. For now I think I will have them compose their beats in fl and record their vocals in Sonar. Kev, I may take you up on your offer to help.

>I hesitated to post this because any reference to hip-hop often is an invite for ignorant comments.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sxZ4tsp8gc

Linear Phase


I've been blending, "hip hop, rock and dance," for years. 

1.  You have to be weary of synthesizer presets. ( most are geared to trance, rave, and dubstep. )

2.  You have to be weary of drums that are synthesizers.  You really need, "a sampler."  ( I believe battery was mentioned )

3.  Sonar is the perfect environment for vocals.  ( That's obvious )

4.  A hip hop beat is nothing more than a downtempo rock beat.  ( This should help significantly. )

5.  The bass is the hardest part.  Getting excellent, and fat, and not muddy bass!!  You be surprised how difficult this is.  ( Trance, rave, dubstep, ) all the other bass is easy!!   But in hip hop, the bass sits below the kick drum..  its very, very hard to do.   Especially, when a lot of the synth presets, "suck."  You really have to get in there, "an design your own bass."

Aside from the five things I mentioned, I'd also like to make aware, "sampling beats, and breaks."  However, do to the amount of typing involved, I will have education partner Google, explain that...

Most modern hip hop producers especially trap guys love those synth presets. Most hip hop producers do not program synths. This is a genre where the Rompler is king and a synth is only as important as its presets. I am one of those guys who can program synth patches and I usually get weird looks because of it. 


Most drum sounds work as long as you can make them bump right. The source isn't all that important especially in an era of hip hop where the 808 kick drum is king. Some people still sample break beats but the bulk of everyone are using online sample packs and a **** ton of hard hitting 808 kicks. 


If you really want to understand modern hip hop drum beats I would get over the whole down tempo rock thing which is still a bit off hip hop is dirived from Funk and Reggae but modern hip hop drums sound nothing like what you are describing unless you are working with more underground acts which again still are more like funk drums. 


Bass in hip hop isn't that hard at all. You have to pick a side depending on the genre you are in for the low end and in hip hop the drums are king. Just make sure you high pass your kick a little bit to let the subs from those 808s come in hard. And even then it still depends on what kind of hip hop you are making. 


I think a lot of guys in this thread have a very dated idea of how to make hip hop. A lot of the advice given here is very true of 90s style boom bap NY hip hop but we live in an era where the south rules and tempos are a lot faster. Its not uncommon now to have a rap song at 120+ bpm

dubdisciple


Kev, I may take you up on your offer to help.

Feel Free. I don't come around here much since I am not using Sonar anymore but I am always around online feel free to email me info@kevwestbeats.com

I kind of filter out a lot of the generality talk about hip-hop because most of it is true and false at the same time. In some circles and eras of hip-hop, the dominant source for drums were old rock drum breaks. A person from Miami during that same area would laugh at that since they practically worshiped the 808. Even in the heart of new york you had exceptions like Kurtis Mantronik. One of the things I do like about hip-hop is that it is consistently open to reinvention. My son is more into old Wu tang and tribe called qwest and even his modern rap preferences lean more towards underground than the southern styles that dominate the pop charts now. his friend is more into southern styles and I here a Lex Lugar influence in what he creates. I'm just g;lad they are enjoying themselves and learning.

Your son and I are totally on the same page then. Tell him to keep at it with Fl Studio its amazing for working with loops and samples and the FPC is a solid drum machine. I am not a big fan fo FL Studio but for boom bap it has everything needed in the box plus he has already been working with it. Hell I remember when the regular argument in hip hop crowds was FL Studio has to be amazing because 9th Wonder uses it lol which isn't true anymore now he uses a Mpc 2500 but its still funny to remember those debates

If you want authentic sounding old skool hip hop, then a sampler is a must, as has already been said. It's doable in Sonar, but it will take a lot more processing to get the sound you are looking for. 
I've done bits in sonar after I got rid of my Akai S01/S2000, really wish I hadn't now and I am in the process of rebuying a lot of gear I used to have.

It's all about the workflow and digging the crates for those rare bits of gold, which is what I loved about some of the older stuff, it sampled rare unheard stuff and reinvigorated interest in other lost musicians.  

• An old akai sampler (s01,s950,s1000,s2000) is a good start but as you know, they lack memory (can be upgraded) and can be a bit tedious to work with when having to load from floppies, unless you have a drive of sorts.
• MPC's are excellent and workflow on these is perfect for hip hop production....the machine of choice for most. (Can be used without need to turn on your daw!!)
• Maschine looks excellent but I would prefer and in the box solution, which is why the akai renaissance isn't for me. (needs daw)
• Ableton is great and has a similar workflow as the MPC with regards to pattern/arrangements, it also has many more (all daw) effects and can be used to produce some great stuff...but still, it ain't no MPC ;)

My choice would be to get an mpc and program your stuff on there, output each channel into sonar and do any edits/effects on the stems from the mpc, master it and set it free :D

dubdisciple


Alan, thanks.  I'm always open to tips

Sorry for the late reply, but I've actually found the site that I got the information from.  Here is the link  http://tweakheadz.com/hip_hop_beat_construction.htm  Hope this is of use to you.
 
Best wishes all for the New Year, hope it's a good one!