Hello,

I am started another thread now, no replies to my other one asking about BFD2 problems with SONAR.
I would love to hear from you BFD2 users, especially those who are running BFD2 in SONAR 8.5 - how do you do it?  What is your secret?




This new thread is about clicks and pops in SONAR 8.5, both in playback and, unfortunately, in recording.

This is when using DXi synths, in this case, there are four of them in four tracks.  I want to mix those into a stereo master, with OUT clicks and pops.  I've done several mixes today - ALL of them have clicks.


so - win 7 64 bit - M audio Fast Track Ultra sound card - i5 processor - 4 GB RAM - nice, new, machine


I've tried several things including but not limited to:

1) Unplugging or disabling the Internet during recording/mixing
2) Disabling antivirus programs
3) Reducing the output level controls on the soft synths from near maximum to about 50 % or even lower
4) Making as sure as possible that NOTHING is running during recording/mixing


Only number 3 seems to have a REAL effect.  I notice that if a DXi synth is "hot", that tracks will tend to click and pop quite a bit, but if you reduce the level, it reduces (but does not always eliminate) pops and clicks. Also - it's not down to one soft synth, I've noticed this using different soft synths, it occurs most often when there are multiple DXis, but it can occur even with a single DXi.  It doesn't SEEM to happen with Audio only - just soft synths.


Now, for most of us, we could tolerate a few tiny clicks because you know, it won't matter because you wouldn't hear them over your drums or pounding bass or screaming guitar solo.  And on my ROCK pieces - I would probably happily tolerate a few tiny clicks as long as it wasn't terffically audible.  SONAR can't be perfect, that's fine.  And in a loud environment, a few tiny clicks really probably would never even be heard.

However, in my case, the clicks and pops are having a HUGE negative effect.  The pieces I am working on, are 8 very long to long ambient pieces, and they are VERY quiet.  So you hear EVERY tiny tic or pop, large as life, because the levels are either so low or because there are periods of near silence in the tracks.  the clicks RUIN the performance, distract from the music, and destroy the mood of the piece(s).


So here's what happens - I have four DXi synths in a session, and I am mixing those four down to a stereo master.  Now, the first thing I do, is go into each soft synth, and turn it's output level DOWN (see 3 above).  That really makes a difference, but in the case of the current track, which is 12:45 long, and VERY quiet, it's not working - there are still clicks and pop in the play back of the stereo mix.  Over 12 minutes - you NOTICE these clicks, I am afraid they are just not tolerable (why do I suddenly yearn for my old TEAC 3340S?).


I've read threads about this - and saw no real, scientific solutions being offered.  "Turn off/unplug the Internet" seems to be the most common of these.

But I do that.  So for the last several bad mixes of this song, I've had the network cable UNPLUGGED, and as many antivirus modules shut off as it will allow (you can't shut the whole thing off, although on one of my two machines, I can "pause" my A/V for up to four hours, forcing it into quiet mode - brilliant!)

Interestingly, I have AVG antivirus on one machine, and Norton on the other - and the pops appear on both machines regardless of the brand of A/V.  In fact, there are pretty much pops in ANY TRACK that uses a DXi.   I would also say, if I am doing AUDIO tracks only...I kinda don't have this problem.


To me, this is an inherent SONAR problem, which I've struggled with - and now, I can no longer live with it.  I need HELP.  I need REAL, tested, guaranteed solutions.


What settings, what can I check, what can I DO, to GET RID OF these damnable noises once and for all??????


It's really wrecking my life.  I do mix after mix after mix.  This one has a pop at 0:39.  Do it again (a 12:45 mix).  Now, it has two pops, at 1:40 and 1:42.



You know that in a professional studio, this wouldn't be tolerated for one second.  Has anyone at SONAR actually troubleshot and solved this issue?  Rather than guesswork or speculation, any hard facts, any settings that can be adjusted or optimised, ANYTHING that will eliminate (not reduce) this problem - I need that.

Beside the shutting off of the Internet and Antivirus, the reduction of soft synth output levels - are there ANY other settings or steps to be taken to solve this little problem?


For me, this means that the best ambient album I've ever made, the culmination of 30 years work in the field, will either not be released or will be released with lots of clicks and pops to spoil the enjoyment of the music.


HELP !


Thank you

Dave



Note: please also reply to personal email, pureambient@gmail.com - I can't always get on the forum, so if you post to BOTH the forum and cc pureambient@gmail.com, I will get your reply faster.

THANKS!

The first I recommend trying is turning up the latency and see if the problem goes away.

Are you using ASIO?  (I'm assuming yes.)

The other thing that I've seen cause problems is setting the sample rate very high (typically 96KHz).  If you're set that high then try going with 48KHz and 24 bits.

try checking your usb cables if you have peripherals hooked up... I notice that I'm getting clicks and pops when I turn on one of my midi controllers... Last time I plugged them all in line on my usb ports but I did a cleaning and plugged them in willy nilly and now I have the popping again... Just sayin'...

 

I want to mix those into a stereo master, with OUT clicks and pops.  I've done several mixes today - ALL of them have clicks.

Are you saying that the pops and clicks are being rendered into the mixed down stereo wave file? If this is the case, then I would check to see your not clipping in those areas.
 
Can you post a clip of the pops and clicks.
 
If it was a driver issue, the artifacts would not get rendered into the exported wave files
Cj

CJay got me thinking about my earlier response.  If the clicks are in the mixed down WAV file then my latency suggestion won't help.

Something else though, have you done some editing and the clicks are at the start or end of an audio clip?

If the clicks and pops are in your exported file, which it sounds like they are (please verify that), then you are probably experiencing digital overs. This is not a SONAR problem, but rather the result of a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of digital audio. If that is indeed your problem, then the solution is quite simple: turn everything down, put a limiter on your master bus and set its target to -1db.

Never used BFD2.

You're using 4 DXi synths:
Exactly which 4 are they? 
Is it multiple instances of the same DXi? 

It seems to me you've been looking for solutions in secondary places. The place to do tweaking is the Options dialogue. Adjusting the latency and buffers etc.

Spend some time reading the manual about the settings in the Options dialogue.  The things you've been doing this far (closing internet etc) is like removing some stones from the way of your car. Instead, you need to open the hood and check the oil levels and battery cables.

And about BFD. It works like any VST. Have you done the tutorial on using VSTs?

I wouldn't be surprised if DXi-synths don't work properly in your system. Are you using BitBridge?
Are you sure the old DX-format works in 64 bit win 7 environment. I've been wondering this same in a few other threads already, but have got no confirmation from any of the gurus.

The first I recommend trying is turning up the latency and see if the problem goes away.

Are you using ASIO?  (I'm assuming yes.)

The other thing that I've seen cause problems is setting the sample rate very high (typically 96KHz).  If you're set that high then try going with 48KHz and 24 bits.



Hi -  First off - thank you EVERYONE for your overwhelming responses.

One at a time I will answer  these - yes, I am using ASIO.

When you say turn up the latency - you mean give it a longer length.  I don't think it's particularly tight right now, would have to look it up.

In this case, these are old recordings, so there is no chance of 96Khz -  these are in fact not even 24 bit, they are from two years ago so they are all 16 bit 48 khz.


I hope that answers these queries.  I will certainly look at my latency settings and if there are any issues there, I will resolve them.

Rampdog

This is an interesting one.  I have a very basic set up, and I am using all brand new USB and other cables, no low quality cables.

I believe this is a problem with SONAR settings, or other influences - but certainly this is good advice, and I will check to see if any of my cables are loose or dirty.  But - I doubt it.


Thanks!  D.


try checking your usb cables if you have peripherals hooked up... I notice that I'm getting clicks and pops when I turn on one of my midi controllers... Last time I plugged them all in line on my usb ports but I did a cleaning and plugged them in willy nilly and now I have the popping again... Just sayin'...