carl

ProjectM

Michael Five

Beepster


I've mentioned this a few times now but I think it would be cool if the Cakewalk guys allowed a third party company to create a dockable, fully integrated Staff View add on so those who need it can buy it from the Cake Store. I'd probably invest in something like that.

PT guys told me last week that Avid had bought Sibelius and integrated into Protools, or were working on it, it was unclear. We were at the coffee shop...

AFAIK When Avid bought Sibelius they eventually took some of the code into PT version 8 which is an absolutely stunning feature. BUT, it's not the full version of Sibelius embedded in PT, it's a very cut down version but the Pro Tools notation view runs in circles around Sonar's Staff View. No wonder, Sibelius made it! But Avid still wants to sell Sibelius to Pro Tools users so it's a cut down version.

You can see the notation view in this video and it's pretty sweet. I'm good with using Sibelius next to Sonar but it would be cool to have something simmilar in Sonar as well, either built in or as an add on.

I actually really like the Add on idea. A third party company specializing in notation could make it.

Enjoyed the video. 
This would be a very welcome add on for myself.
I've used Sonars' notation over the years & it's fine for a quick scratch chart.
Always have to hand edit it afterwards though, wish it handled transcribing better.

Same here. So I guess I'm in the camp that want better Staff View. But, it's no show stopper for me. I'm thinking that with Sonar's excellent feature set and brilliant sound design and composing features, a proper notation feature would make it a BRUTAL tool for composers as well. Especially for those who compose with musical training and create a finished product. And of course for those who need to print simple scores.
 
Well, I'm not on the fence waiting for it. But one can dream can't he I'm still looking forward to see what/if they've done to it in X2. I already thought it was an improvement to work with it in X1

That PT notation looks awesome. The real time transcribing part was crazy. I'm curious, and maybe some of you Sibelus users can fill me in... will Sibelus control synths within X1? Does it work well?

Beepster


That PT notation looks awesome. The real time transcribing part was crazy. I'm curious, and maybe some of you Sibelus users can fill me in... will Sibelus control synths within X1? Does it work well?

I'm speculating (now that my sanity has returned), but I'd guess you can get midi out of Sibelius and use that to drive sonar synths...

I export my Finale files as midi and then use Sonar to open them. You have to use the "open with"  command by right clicking on the midi file so all the information contained in the midi file remains intact. If you import the midi file, you'll lose some of it such as the tempo, markers and any other data.

I used to post in these "improve staff view" threads, then I realized these threads have been going on for several versions with no real improvement from Cake.  I gave up and bought Sibelius, which I eventually needed for what I do anyhow.  

I went to one of those "meet a rep" events and spoke with a Cake employee.  I pointed out to him, if Cake improved their notation they could market Sonar to the ever increasing, "composer" crowd.  Currently, it would seem Logic and Cubase has much of that "crowd".  The Cake rep explained that was "not their target audience." 

This was 2 years ago, maybe things have changed?  I don't know, but with the bad notation and horrible video format support, I have to conclude he was telling me the truth.  I really like Sonar, (much more than ProTools) so I bought Sibelius for Notation (great choice!) and Vegas for video (was needed anyhow)  and use Sonar as my favorite DAW software. 

One day, we will have a Vegas/Sibelius/Sonar type program all in one, but its not today.  SV improvements would still make my job easier and alot of us happy, but the writing has been on the wall version after version, Cake is not going to update it anytime soon.  Sometimes it's better to accept the loss and find a different way to get the job done. 

I tell you, whichever company makes the Notation/DAW/Video program is going to put a big dent in the market.  Considering the power of todays computers, I don't think the all-in-one program is too far off.

Count me in for staff view improvements, please.

It seems to me that it is one of the few areas that hasn't been improved, bar a few menu rearrangements.

I see arguments for people saying that not enough Sonar users use staff view and so wouldn't be economically viable. How about attracting new users on the back of a comprehensive staff view? Economic sense? A possibility.

Just my thoughts.

synkrotron

Benny Bear


How about attracting new users on the back of a comprehensive staff view? Economic sense?

Surely this would depend on how much Cakewalk would charge for improved staff view functionality. As I said a few posts above, if Sibelius can charge £460 for something that is primarily "just" a scoring package, how much more would Sonar cost in order to implement the same? They certainly would be able to afford to keep the costs within what they charge at the moment, and it would have to be an additional feature.


Sonar X2 Composer Suite


Which is still probably not a bad idea. Cakewalk would then have to determine how much take-up of such a product would be.


If, as some have tried to suggest here, Cakewalk/Roland only want to target recording engineers, mixers, mastering peeps, bedroom composers, and not include professional composers who feel they require proper classical notation, then it just isn't going to happen.


I would be surprised if Cakewalk/Roland haven't researched this in quite some detail. They must have some kind of idea on how many will ditch their DAW in favour of an all singing, all dancing scoring/recording/mastering DAW?

Why do you say CW will charge extra for something that is already included?

What is with this extra charging stuff?