Over the months I've never seen any of the folks that are consistantly asking for an update to SV ask for anything like Sibelius. They just want a SV that functions better than what we have now.

I think they have a valid point. While I'm not exactly 'conversant' with notation I know enough that it would help me if there was a better SV. As it is I've tried using it a few times and each time I end up scratching my head and revert to PRV.

Regards,
 

synkrotron

John

Why do you say CW will charge extra for something that is already included? 

Hi John,


At the moment we have a staff view that functions at a certain level. It falls short of the kind of detail that you would get out of a package such as Sibelius. Can you really see Cakewalk putting as much development time into their current staff view in order to bring it up to the standards that the Sibelius uses expect. Considering the amount that you have to pay for Sibelius, I really cannot, for the life of me, see Cakewalk taking their current staff view to the level of Sibelius without some kind of additional charge, and they would do that, in my mind, by making it an add-on module that you would have to pay for.

Can you understand what I am saying? Just using Sibelius as an example here, it is so much more expensive... It might even be that Avid have some kind of copyright on the scoring software they have developed. Who knows... there may even be some kind of agreement between Cakewalk/Roland and Avid that Sonar will never compete with Sibelius in terms of staff view functionality.

I'm not deliberately trying to cause more of a rumpus here... I am just trying to reason, in my own head, why things are like they are with our staff view, that's all.

cheers

andy

I do want a high quality Staff View I do not want or need a Sibelius type printing program in Sonar. Sibelius is for producing not just scores but for sending out to score publishers that require a great deal more than what a normal publisher needs. First off the size of a score manuscript is non standard. The contents of the score is not normal print and so on. Its not the same as what you can dash off on your home printer. No one on the forum has asked for or wants as far as I have noticed anything like Sibelius for Sonar. What we want is simple. A great display that translates fully to MIDI as Sonar sees it with easy and simple note entry that can handle
sophisticated scoring. 

You assume things that are not part of the equation. This is not your fault BTW it is often misunderstood and dedicated score editors are used as the gold standard by those that don't fully have an understanding of what can be done with for example Cubase.

This topic is like the never-ending story...  
 
I believe it's fair to say that what the SV folks want is something on par with other major DAWs such as Cubase, Logic or DP.   And something tells me that none of those are on par with standalone Sibelius (probably not Finale either).   But that's not what is being requested.  
 
Disclaimer: I've never used Cubase, Logic or DP.  But I've read these threads often enough to know that *they* are the common benchmark for comparison to SONAR's SV, not dedicated scoring software like Sibelius. 
 
 
 
 
PS: DJ...  no boycotts here either.  In fact, the idea of boycotting a software package just seems really weird to me, not to mention a futile exercise in the overall scheme of things.    Boycott schmoycott. 
 

stevec


This topic is like the never-ending story...  
 
I believe it's fair to say that what the SV folks want is something on par with other major DAWs such as Cubase, Logic or DP.   And something tells me that none of those are on par with standalone Sibelius (probably not Finale either).   But that's not what is being requested.  
 
Disclaimer: I've never used Cubase, Logic or DP.  But I've read these threads often enough to know that *they* are the common benchmark for comparison to SONAR's SV, not dedicated scoring software like Sibelius. 
 
 
 
 
PS: DJ...  no boycotts here either.  In fact, the idea of boycotting a software package just seems really weird to me, not to mention a futile exercise in the overall scheme of things.    Boycott schmoycott. 
 

I could write a long post in response. However its not needed due to the simple fact that Steve has written what I consider a post I can fully agree with in its entirety. 


Well done! 

stevec


This topic is like the never-ending story...  
 
I believe it's fair to say that what the SV folks want is something on par with other major DAWs such as Cubase, Logic or DP.   And something tells me that none of those are on par with standalone Sibelius (probably not Finale either).   But that's not what is being requested.  
 
Disclaimer: I've never used Cubase, Logic or DP.  But I've read these threads often enough to know that *they* are the common benchmark for comparison to SONAR's SV, not dedicated scoring software like Sibelius. 
 
 
 
 
PS: DJ...  no boycotts here either.  In fact, the idea of boycotting a software package just seems really weird to me, not to mention a futile exercise in the overall scheme of things.    Boycott schmoycott. 
 

Yes a never ending story indeed.  The folks thinking that anyone would want a full featured notation app in Sonar just never seem to get it.  And there are millions of them waiting to chime in.  I've given up.  Cakewalk doesn't care about notation.  It will always be inferior in Sonar.   I'm waiting to see what DP for Windows is like.

Well done!

 
Thanks.        I don't chime in that often on this subject, only because I've been around long enough to know how it goes.  But I also understand that we have a few newer users on board who haven't had the pleasure.  Uh, I mean experience. 
 
 
 

I've given up.  Cakewalk doesn't care about notation.  It will always be inferior in Sonar.

 
I've seen that same sentiment quite a few times, but I really don't believe that CW (in general) doesn't "care" about notation, rather that their hands are tied in some fashion.  And based on previous Baker comments (years ago now) I understood it to be a technical hurdle more than anything.  I also recall (I think) seeing references to X1's Skylight as being a potential means of pushing ahead at some point.  But given those first comments, I'd imagine it's still a bigger investment than other areas of the product, even with Skylight.  Well, at least based the current list of X2 changes...  I guess we'll find out more over the next few months!
 

vintagevibe

stevec


This topic is like the never-ending story...  

I believe it's fair to say that what the SV folks want is something on par with other major DAWs such as Cubase, Logic or DP.   And something tells me that none of those are on par with standalone Sibelius (probably not Finale either).   But that's not what is being requested.  

Disclaimer: I've never used Cubase, Logic or DP.  But I've read these threads often enough to know that *they* are the common benchmark for comparison to SONAR's SV, not dedicated scoring software like Sibelius. 




PS: DJ...  no boycotts here either.  In fact, the idea of boycotting a software package just seems really weird to me, not to mention a futile exercise in the overall scheme of things.    Boycott schmoycott. 

Yes a never ending story indeed.  The folks thinking that anyone would want a full featured notation app in Sonar just never seem to get it.  And there are millions of them waiting to chime in.  I've given up.  Cakewalk doesn't care about notation.  It will always be inferior in Sonar.   I'm waiting to see what DP for Windows is like.

+1   I've been to other forums and DP seems to have lots of problems that Sonar does not.  But when the windows 64 bit version is available I will jump in on this.  I'm not saying I'll leave Sonar, but I will take a long hard look at DP 'cause of its notation and film scoring features.  I'm sure the initial release will have it's issues,  and I say this not because of my experience with Cake and Sonar, but of what i've read about MOTU and DP.

Yeah, something tells me the grass really is greener when it comes to notation and scoring to picture.  But whether the grass is a little brown and dried out in other areas of the yard, areas where tend to walk a lot, well...