Complement:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=2512060

Guitarpima

Gusfmm


@ Guitarprima - I, on the contrary, would hope this thread could continue being kept alive until the final X2 announcement. Not that other past threads haven't, but this has been a good reference and may serve to perpetuate the outstanding (hopefully not further ignored) issue for future reference.

On the contrary, I like the discussion about SV improvments. I think we should stick to specifics about what we don't like about it rather than get drawn into useless debates about things we have no control over feuled by someone who thinks we should just shut up. I started another thread with the hope we could stick to the specifics and stop the nonsense. Who cares about other products. I like Sonar as a DAW. I would hope they make the SV better so it's more usable. If I need to print music, I use Finale. For now, till the SV is fixed, I have to use Finale for the more technicly involved scoring.

+1000
 
My position is pretty much exactly that too ... I use Sibelius when I want to score, I just get on with it.
The SV is a bit sadly lacking, and deserves focussed discussion here by those wanting to see practical improvements and advancement.
Good on you for starting a new thread, though it wouldn't surprise me if certain users crash in there to be disruptive.
I've blocked em, not worth the bandwidth.
 
There's been some pretty informative discussion in the past, lets hope you new thread gets the treatment it deserves, and not the other.
 
Cheers - Cliff
 

You guys really need to block djwayne if you want to have a serious discussion.  I did a long time ago.

I broke down, done gone and bought cube 6.5 a few months back... dongle shmongle, I say... I just need an integrated DAW. Plus, I justified the steinberg key by getting a really good deal on Arturia's synths at the time anyway... :) I've been using MakeMusic's PrintMusic for years for basic lead sheet stuff that I do from scratch (really nice app for the $$$, BTW). I have no real use for full-blown Finale or Sibelius, etc., in that I'm not doing full scores for film and print, etc... but I do need full-featured staff in the way that I need comprehensive MIDI, a decent step sequencer, audio stretch, etc. etc. all in one package. Rewire and XML import/export and all that other jazz is really something I don't have the patience for... which is another reason I wouldn't use Finale/Sibelius anyway, because on the DAW side they're lacking, comparatively. 

I've played piano for years, and honestly, programming chords and harmonies in PRV is paaaaiiinfullllll... I don't know what it is... no, I do know what it is... I don't play piano at a 90 degree angle. If the piano keys were along the top, then I could at least see the notes naturally as they relate to the, you know, piano... but then you lose the ability to naturally "read" the notes left to right. I'm sorry, but PRV sucks for part programming from scratch. I've done it for years (in SONAR and elsewhere) and every time it takes longer to do simple things. Tweaking a live performance, perfectly adequate, but notes from scratch, very difficult, IMO. So... if I need to write in a horn section or some strings, I just need the tool that is the most efficient for that sort of job, which for me is notation. Other times I may just play those same parts in and tweak in PRV... but I need the options. I've actually programmed entire scratch tracks using only the mouse in Sonar, FL, reaper, etc., including piano, drums, bass, melody... so for me, the more tools, the better!

Keith, is Cubase properly 64 bit? What I've read is a bit vague. I know it will run in Win 7 64 bit, but it addresses 64 bit (ie >4Gbyte)  memory properly?  I saw the score capabilities in a music shop recently and I was blown away. Also not sure if I can get the English version, I live in Japan.

I'd thought of going to Pro Tools because of it's ubiquity but it wasn't 64bit last time I looked.

I use piano roll view but with the staff view open above it.

Funny thing is I do have Finale and have been upgrading with them even though I'm not really using it at the moment. I used the last version more for the education worksheets I printed out. I got Finale 2007 for a really great price at the time and keep upgrading. I'm just like Keith and that I'm used to the staff view and kept hoping for Cakewalk to make it shine. Looks like I might be looking at Cubase too.

The Staff View/Notation issue has been in this forum since CA9, and every year when a new Sonar version is announced, we notation users who have been patiently waiting for more than 10 years ask the same questions again.....

If Cakewalk has no intention of updating notation features, the least they can do is politely let us know, so that we can finally bury this issue, and move on to some other DAW for those who need better notation features.

I think Cakewalk is being unkind by keeping mum on this issue.  If the staff view user base is so small that it's not worth Cake's effort to develop staff view any further....PLEASE SAY SO...instead of keeping us hanging year after year after year....and hoping to get our upgrade dollars, but still refusing to update Sonar's notation features.

PLEASE BE HONEST WITH YOUR LOYAL USERS..... we can take the bad news....we just need to decide if we have to consider other DAWs which will serve our notation needs better....

If the notation user base is that small...then Cakewalk shouldn't be afraid to lose the income of a handful of users who need better notation.

How about it, Noel, Brandon, Seth, etc.?  Can we finally hear an official statement on Cakewalk's intentions on upgrading Sonar's notation features?

I love Sonar so much, that I'm personally willing to wait for X3, X4, or even X5 for better notation....we just need to know if there is a waiting period involved at all.....

vicsant

If the notation user base is that small...then Cakewalk shouldn't be afraid to lose the income of a handful of users who need better notation.
 

It seems to me that if the notation user base is small, that would be because the notation functionality is not good enough to attract one. Every other DAW that has decent notation editing must be getting a good return off of it, otherwise they wouldn't have put the $$$'s into developing it. 

So the only arguments I can think of are that:

a) Cakewalk does not have the money to budget for notation development as opposed to other areas of development, because
b) They spent that money developing all the other awesome features of X1, and/or
c) Their notation engine in its present form is not strong enough to build on and would require a complete rewrite

These guys certainly aren't stupid, and they are no doubt well aware that a new improved notation view would increase their potential user base. I simply don't buy the argument that not enough people use notation. The music industry is bursting with people who work with music notation every single day, and always has been. 

What eludes me is why Cakewalk has virtually left notation untouched for more than 10 years...which leads to the suspicion that they believed that the notation user base was not worth addressing...

If they gradually improved notation over those years....maybe a couple of features added every year...then by now Sonar would have killer notation features!!

Now, they have a lot of catching up to do with the likes of Cubase, and PT.  I'm afraid that once PT (dongle and all....) goes 64 bit and has freeze, and quick bounce features....Sonar is going to loose a lot more customers.

Yep fully x64, and it runs a treat, as does Sonar of course.
The Score editor is way better than X1, but they have continued to refine it over the years and so it should be.
Importing and scoring to video has more functions than X1 [moving video around the timeline etc]
Another thing Cubase and most other DAW's seem to have, that X1 does not, is chase long Midi notes.
That would be a nice future request.

Keith, is Cubase properly 64 bit? What I've read is a bit vague. I know it will run in Win 7 64 bit, but it addresses 64 bit (ie >4Gbyte)  memory properly?  I saw the score capabilities in a music shop recently and I was blown away. Also not sure if I can get the English version, I live in Japan. I'd thought of going to Pro Tools because of it's ubiquity but it wasn't 64bit last time I looked. I use piano roll view but with the staff view open above it.