Also PRV is great for a lot of things but it is a huge hassle compared to proper notation scoring. If you know what you are doing on the staff tonally you can get stuff done WAY more easily than with PRV. The PRV, IMO, would then be used for adjusting dynamics and more intricate editing of not length (as figuring out note duration is actually more complicated in notation than PRV). Just some thoughts.

That is not integrated nor dockable. That just says you can export to those programs.

Beepster


That is not integrated nor dockable. That just says you can export to those programs.

True Beep, but that is Cakewalk's position on the whole Staff View thing... they obviously don't want us to use Sonar for intricate scoring, or else why mention, as they put it "popular notation programs."

I'm actually not rabid about the Staff View thing like others are but it would be nice. Just throwing some ideas out there in case the Cakesters are listening. I think it'd be cool and possibly calm these rumblings... AND perhaps make them some money in the process. I mean... everyone likes money, right? ;-p

thebiglongy


Perhaps you should get a petition on the forum lol. Get all members to agree NOT to upgrade until they give clear information on what if anything is happening with the Notation abilities of Sonar. It's not as if this is a new issue, I've watched this come up over and over again yet nothing done, a little show of solidarity for those who compose using notation wouldn't go a miss. I for one, will happily hold out to support those who need notation (don't use it myself).

I won't :-)

I can guarantee that there will be a day where the Bakers will have regrets not paying attention to staff view.  I don't know the when, why or how,  but i've been in this buisness long enough to know and see things change.  Things change a lot especially regarding technology.  Notation will still be around and how orchestras and  jazz bands and all kinds of music will still be performed. DAWs might not... 

The thing is it's very difficult for those who do not understand notation to appreciate how useful it is... and that is no slag to people who don't because I've only just come to gain a basic understanding of it myself after twenty years of playing and everyone has their own way of doing things. Whatever works works IMO. However once an understanding of notation is there in your mind the functionality, simplicity and compact nature of the notation staff is EXTREMELY useful when dealing with tones and keys. For timing and dynamics not so much. PRV is great but it is a much larger format, takes up far more screen space and instead of just tossing in a key signature and knowing where to drop things you have to pluck away like a frantic hen to get things done. The point is to dismiss those who use notation is contrary to a couple hundred years of musical knowledge and tradition. Notation was MIDI (write it, musicians read and play it) before MIDI could even be conceptualized. Not gonna affect any of my future purchases from Cake but it is an interesting subject. And I find the reference to "bedroom" musicians/engineers a little silly as the location and proximity of the mind and talent of an individual has absolutely nothing to do with their abilities as a musician.

synkrotron

Jimbo 88


Notation will still be around and how orchestras and  jazz bands and all kinds of music will still be performed. DAWs might not... 

And I think that's the whole point, right there. I wouldn't mind betting that fewer people are using DAWs like Sonar to compose music that will then be played by an orchestra or session musicians, from sheet music printed from the same DAW, while they, in turn, are then recorded as audio back into that DAW.


More and more bands are using Sonar/Logic/PT, what ever, to create ideas in their homes, who then get together in the studio, and don't even bother with sheet music. And I'm talking about regular, professional bands here, not bedroom peeps like me. I've watched recent video blogs of Opeth and Meshuggah (like them or not, it does not matter), and that is how the use DAWs to help create their music. Steve Wilson of Porcupine Tree is another example... DAWs are great for that kind of thing, in my humble opinion.


Anyway, back to my bedroom now... got to make some throw away muzak...

Yes, and in a round about way you are making my point for me... Not to belittle you or anyone, but while you go back to your bedroom I'm going back to my studio.  I'm preparing a score that I'm being well paid for and will recieve royalties.  I'm preparing a  Trumpet score to be recorded into Sonar.
 
10+ years ago I hand wrote the music and recorded the trumpet on a Tascam 88.
 
Today I compose in Sonar, record in Sonar and score in Sibelius.
 
10 years from now who knows how I will record,  but I will still have to prepare the music for the Trumpet player.  The Tascam 88 is no longer needed,  but the music still is. 
 
Sonar got a good start in the industry  'cause Cakewalk had a decent staff view for the time.  The sequencer went more hand in hand with notation.  The common denomonator is the music score/notation. 
 
10 years from now there is a good chance the guys in the bedroom will not be using a DAW....but 10 years from now there will be me and others still preparing a score for recording and notation will be the basis for that technology, just as it was for Sonar once upon a time.

Jimbo 88


I can guarantee that there will be a day where the Bakers will have regrets not paying attention to staff view.  I don't know the when, why or how,  but i've been in this buisness long enough to know and see things change.  Things change a lot especially regarding technology.  Notation will still be around and how orchestras and  jazz bands and all kinds of music will still be performed. DAWs might not... 

I hope you are wrong but I fear you are right. If CW does not improve the Staff View in a way that brings it up to that offered by Cubase or Logic Sonar will never be taken as seriously as I hope CW wishes it to be.


No it wont mean anything to people that play by ear nor the loopers or electronic musicians but it will have an unfortunate impact on jazz musicians and classical musicians alike; people who think in notation and communicate via notation and can not do so because of CW's refusal to improve it. People that want and need their ideas shown in notation are not going to choose Sonar. 


Music departments in colleges are not going to pick it as their first choice for general use for this very reason.

People that have trained their entire lives using notation are not going to let that skill go dormant. 
No need when there are very good alternatives in the form of Cubase and Logic. 


The fact that Sonar has had notation all these years puts it in their league yet no one in those fields would consider it because its notation is so poor.


Reaper and Studio one have no notation and don't claim to be general purpose DAWs. CW has by the fact it covers all aspects of music does have ambitions for being in this league. But in this one area it falls very short. 


I hope CW wakes up to how important proper and good integrated notation is to garner the respect and prestige it will command from those that live with and by notation in their daily work.  


There are far more that one may think.