BTW is there a way to move the envelopes with the track? The volume envelope stays where it was.

FWIW, I never add latency inducing effects to my project until I know I will never take them out.

SONAR is incredibly weak at managing the PDC once you actually start using the PDC. Pulling a latency inducing effect out of your project makes the timing of the project fragile and prone to manifestations such as you have observed.

If I think I want to temporarily experiment with latency inducing plugin that I will want to remove after the trial I use a special alternate version of the project file.

I do this so that I do not corrupt and screw up a project that is important. Once the project gets the kack from bad latency management it is hard to get the kack to go away.

I always either wait till I am definitely going to use the plugin or I try it on an alternate safety project. 

On occasions I have seen that people have advised raising the MIDI latency buffer to make audio gremlins like this disappear or at least only appear when you project is using up lots of resources.

I just avoid the problem by never pulling a PDC managed plug in out of a project.

Timing stability is one of the things I wish Cakewalk was working on instead of what ever it is trying to work on at the moment.


Good luck.



best regards,
mike

  

Thanks Mike.
at least I know this can happen.
I don't know what you mean by a PDC managed plugin but I'll remember Perfect Space.

Turn off the effect send on the vocal track and any echo inputs. Then turn off the Sound Engine. Go to preferences / audio / driver settings. Set the proper latency. Hit apply and ok. By "rescanning" the audio engine it will hopefully release any " hanging " audio/eff. That is prob why you got the silent bus thingy. Check Bus outputs, try play the project now !

TY SB....that's what I was reffering to Glenn... I would also restart the sound engine.

Last resort would be to revert back to an older stored version of the song before the problem started?

Still working on this.
1.Where am I looking for the "Sound Engine"?
2.In preferences/Audio/Driver settings, things are grayed out under mixing latency.
Under ASIO Panel I have several controls but no idea what to try.
3.Smaller or larger buffer size?
4.Do I check Use smaller size?
5.Do I check AISO Direct monitor?
6.MIDI in Light load?
I'm totally in the dark here, these tweaks are meaningless to me and I can see there would be dozens of random combinations.
Help?

Hi Glenn,

Latency is determined by two factors:

• Your audio interface (total round-trip latency)
• Any "latent" plugins (Convolution or Mastering style plugins are commonly latent) add additional latency

If a latent plugin is inserted *anywhere* in the project, Sonar's automatic PDC (plugin delay compensation) will delay all other audio to maintain sync.
You can globally disable PDC in the transport section of the Control Bar.  This is useful if you need to record additional tracks after latent plugins have been inserted in the project.

As Mike mentioned, it's good practice to avoid latent plugins while composing/tracking.

Ok, thanks. 
The PDC does nothing here.
I hadn't thought of latency during mixing tho. The recording was long over in this case.
The echo is not thru the whole song just in areas along the timeline.
I think they were the areas that i had played during the first listen after installing the plug.
I removed the plug but retained an echo in certain clips.
The echo is only on the vox but the plug was on a guitar buss.
Another interesting thing I just discovered is, if the offending track is in the corrupted timeline, the whole song plays (all trax) even tho there is only the one track in the time line.

It's a ghost in the machine

Audio engine ,is the proper word. ( my bad, not sound engine ) :) http://img51.imageshack.u...1/6412/audioengine.jpg I also had troubble with S.I.R reverb with delay after deleting it from the FX bin. that caused delay,even if there was no Plugin there. Then i had to reset the Audio engine by turning it off, and go to settings and audio to reconfig it and hit apply. Then the problem was gone. I am not sure if that will help you, but it's worth a try ! http://imageshack.us/phot...85/driversettings.jpg/

Delay on some clip's ! What if you delete all FX's , automation lanes, Busse's, so it it's just plain non FX processed audio. Maybe save it in another format ! Closing sonar and restart it then open the project again.