I think you'll find the sweetspot is where the amount of trouble you get in to with your wife and bank manager is outweighed by the gain in performance.. 

So a quick google search and all this information seems to be originating from that initial post... No promises that this is real, yet... I'm sure there will be options and it won't all turn out as bad as we first thought, if this ends up happening.

LJB


I think you'll find the sweetspot is where the amount of trouble you get in to with your wife and bank manager is outweighed by the gain in performance.. 

Lol, love it LJB, just love it.
I think we need to establish our wives sweet spot first, before embarking on anything else that is likely to move their sweet spot further up the ladder!
;-)
Still, if we exceed the wife's sweet spot, then we could always try singing them a nice song or something. Ha ha.

Hehe.

Well hi there grumbleweed4162 Thanks for your reply, i was beginning to think that some people here were being all cloak and dagger about it, i think maybe they are fishing for work , or maybe just trying to show how clever and superior they are, but without actually spilling any of the beans. I googled elsewhere and found out how to do it, but yes your info is also spot on. Thanks again, well done . Maybe the secret club society should go set up there own website and make a buck elswhere! 

I must have missed the information in Grumbleweed's post. Unless you have his or another automatic overclocking MB, there is no useful information there. Were he to dig into his bios and post the settings his overclocking robot had made, it might be information of some general utility.


The reason that the professional builders who frequent these forums are loath to give details about such things is that they are for the most part assembling machines from off the shelf parts available to all. What distinguishes their machines is the choice of those parts and the tweaks to the settings that they make. Those choices cannot be protected by copyright or patent, and receive what limited protection they have as trade secrets. If you reveal your own trade secrets, you forfeit that limited protection, and allow anyone with a screwdriver the ability to make an identical system. 


As you note, there are other sources for overclocking opinions scattered across the web. The particular tweaks and incompatibilities that make a system less problematic with a wide range of specialized audio devices and applications are much harder to find. 


I expect that the DAW assemblers would suffer less of a financial loss than they fear if more people knew what they know about their machines. The support they provide, which is an ongoing expense that their margin is probably pretty hard pressed to support, would be reason enough for most musicians to pay the extra cost. But I do not blame them for playing close to the vest with valuable information.

Thanks Jim, No I don't. To me it seems perhaps its using some neat technology though I don't know enough to have an opinion at present. I just want to have your opinion as to how you rate them when compared to one another and not over clocked.   Again thank you.

Socket 2011 (3820) has the advantage of quad-channel RAM (more RAM and bandwidth)
Socket 1155 (3770k) has the advantage of running cooler (which translates to quiet)
The 3820 and 3770k are about the same cost.
Socket 2011 motherboards are $100+ more than their socket 1155 counterparts.

If you're working with numerous massive sample libraries (Hollywood Strings, LA Scoring Strings, etc), then Socket 2011 would be the better choice.

If you're working a fair bit with video editing/rendering, socket 2011 would be the better choice.

If you're doing straight up audio recording/editing/mixing... it's hard to beat the 3770k running at 4.5GHz.
Great balance of cost/performance... and easily runs cool/quiet

I've got one of each sitting next to me (both with top-notch 3rd party CPU coolers):
The 3770k running at 4.5GHz in a Cube case idles in the mid 20's degrees C.
The 3820 running at 4.5GHz in a Tower case idles in the upper 30's degrees C.

Overclocking the 3820 is more involved.  Striking the perfect balance between desired performance and running cool/quiet will take the novice builder a lot more time/effort.

Jim Roseberry

Thanks Jim, No I don't. To me it seems perhaps its using some neat technology though I don't know enough to have an opinion at present. I just want to have your opinion as to how you rate them when compared to one another and not over clocked.   Again thank you.

Socket 2011 (3820) has the advantage of quad-channel RAM (more RAM and bandwidth)
Socket 1155 (3770k) has the advantage of running cooler (which translates to quiet)
The 3820 and 3770k are about the same cost.
Socket 2011 motherboards are $100+ more than their socket 1155 counterparts.

If you're working with numerous massive sample libraries (Hollywood Strings, LA Scoring Strings, etc), then Socket 2011 would be the better choice.

If you're working a fair bit with video editing/rendering, socket 2011 would be the better choice.

If you're doing straight up audio recording/editing/mixing... it's hard to beat the 3770k running at 4.5GHz.
Great balance of cost/performance... and easily runs cool/quiet

I've got one of each sitting next to me (both with top-notch 3rd party CPU coolers):
The 3770k running at 4.5GHz in a Cube case idles in the mid 20's degrees C.
The 3820 running at 4.5GHz in a Tower case idles in the upper 30's degrees C.

Overclocking the 3820 is more involved.  Striking the perfect balance between desired performance and running cool/quiet will take the novice builder a lot more time/effort.

Excellent, Jim! Thanks a lot. Everything I wanted to know. But more importantly I wanted your views and you gave them. 

I must have missed the information in Grumbleweed's post. Unless you have his or another automatic overclocking MB, there is no useful information there. Were he to dig into his bios and post the settings his overclocking robot had made, it might be information of some general utility.

I was just passing on the information that my Sabretooth can O/C automatically (by the way, the option is "OC Tuner").
It could be worth interested people looking at the BIOS of their motherboard to see if there is a similar option.
As to whether clicking on that option is a good idea or not is down to the owner of a potentially fried motherboard/cpu .
 
Grum. 
 

 
 
 

slartabartfast

Well hi there grumbleweed4162 Thanks for your reply, i was beginning to think that some people here were being all cloak and dagger about it, i think maybe they are fishing for work , or maybe just trying to show how clever and superior they are, but without actually spilling any of the beans. I googled elsewhere and found out how to do it, but yes your info is also spot on. Thanks again, well done . Maybe the secret club society should go set up there own website and make a buck elswhere! 

I must have missed the information in Grumbleweed's post. Unless you have his or another automatic overclocking MB, there is no useful information there. Were he to dig into his bios and post the settings his overclocking robot had made, it might be information of some general utility.


The reason that the professional builders who frequent these forums are loath to give details about such things is that they are for the most part assembling machines from off the shelf parts available to all. What distinguishes their machines is the choice of those parts and the tweaks to the settings that they make. Those choices cannot be protected by copyright or patent, and receive what limited protection they have as trade secrets. If you reveal your own trade secrets, you forfeit that limited protection, and allow anyone with a screwdriver the ability to make an identical system. 


As you note, there are other sources for overclocking opinions scattered across the web. The particular tweaks and incompatibilities that make a system less problematic with a wide range of specialized audio devices and applications are much harder to find. 


I expect that the DAW assemblers would suffer less of a financial loss than they fear if more people knew what they know about their machines. The support they provide, which is an ongoing expense that their margin is probably pretty hard pressed to support, would be reason enough for most musicians to pay the extra cost. But I do not blame them for playing close to the vest with valuable information.

Ahem. Time to get some things straight methinks.


First off, this thread would have been better started over in the Gear>Computers sub-forum where it properly belongs. Perhaps a mod will move it there eventually.


But as long as this OT post having nothing really to do with Sonar specifically and everything to do with DAW PCs is already here, let's just digress it further along and deal with some points raised above.


Now, as for there not being enough information given here, well I declare, what a buncha lazy ig'nant pansies y'all are. 


Y'all really oughta be ashamed of y'selves.


Someone far wiser than I once said, "If your computer is your instrument, then you had better learn to play it!". 


Amen, oh wise one.


It has today become so easy and safe (and convenient) to overclock a PC that anyone with the ability to read and to use a computer keyboard can do so without smoking their PC, what with Intel (and AMD) offering unlocked cpu's intended for overclocking and with motherboard manufacturers offering boards with easy overclocking profiles and utilities and BIOSes that will automatically reset themselves back to safe default parameters in case of a botched overclock attempt, and Intel will even sell you a "free cpu replacement" insurance policy for a very modest fee in case you fry your new cpu. Not to mention (but I will) the wide availability of fast overclockable memory and quiet aftermarket cooling solutions.

I'd venture that it is harder today to screw up an overclock than it is to overclock a PC in the first place.  A far cry from days when it was necessary to physically change jumpers on motherboards to alter the voltage and clock settings, and knowledge of what cpu and memory and motherboards could be reliably overclocked was hard won and not readily available off the shelf with preset oc profiles or identified with a "K" designation.

The necessary knowledge, like the truth, is out there to be easily learned if one only takes the trouble to seek it out instead of asking and expecting it to be spoon fed to them like a little clueless baby. 

Batteries not included, some minimal effort required. 

Gaming PC websites would be an obvious starting place for overclocking info. Also many PC-centric review websites include overclocking info in their reviews, including memory specs and BIOS voltage settings and oc results.

So, dig in ladies.

Or, if you're lazy, or wary, or not confident, or need highest performance with assured reliability, or don't have a PC nerd on speed dial, or a pro who fits any of the above and can write off biz expenses, then you are fortunate indeed to be able to get a well-specified and reliability-tested prebuilt DAW from any number of respected commercial DAW builders who will advise you pre-build and support you down the line, and for reasonable cost. Wasn't always the case.

Now, as for our commercial DAW builders, I have been criticized elsewhere for antagonizing them here, or for having an ax to grind, or for whatever...

Baloney! (for our Brits: Bollocks!). 

I have known Jim from the cakewalk audio newsgroup and other ng's we both frequented since ages ago, and of Scott since he began by selling pre-tested overclockable Celerons following the publication of Pete Leoni's seminal "Roll Your Own Screamer DAW" in Rip Rowan's old ProRec webzine in the late '90s (for the unaware or the historically interested, see the "Thanks to Jim Rosberry.." thread in the Computers subforum, and my "Wayback Machine" post there). 

Suffice to say, I've both parried and collaborated with the pioneers of DAWs and Cakewalk, since back before DAWs were even called DAWs (when Cakewalk Audio used to just be called a MIDI + audio sequencer). And if you've ever used Cakewalk Pro Audio or Sonar to record onto hard drives, then you have perhaps benefited from information which I had to seek out and learn, and then argue about with Jose Catena, and which eventually was published for all to know and then incorporated into the way Cakewalk Audio was coded for streaming audio to/from drives. Not that I sought to profit from my input, it was reward enough that DAWs improved, because all I'd wanted was to be able to make and record music with my PC and it was enough that Jose appreciated my work and input at the time and that Cakewalk Audio got better for it.

Now, if anyone bothers to look through the archived old newsgroup posts, they will see that even way back then Jim's name was very frequently recommended by a great many as a go-to source for pre-built DAWs. Including by me, and not just in the ng, as I happen to know that Jim supplied DAWs on several occasions on my recommendations made to musicians who'd asked me about setting up home studios or stage/soundboard recording rigs. 

Just as I would have no hesitation in recommending Jim's systems to anyone today. I truly harbor no ill will against Jim or Scott, and only wish for them to live long and prosper in the DAW biz, because there will always be a need for reliable and stable DAWs that just work out of the box and are well supported, because not everyone needs or wants or is capable to roll their own. Truly, I have only affection and respect for these guys, they occupy a sweet spot in my DAW experience, and anyone insinuating to the contrary has either misread my previous posts or just been trying to stir things up,

But that does not mean I'm going to lurk silently if I perceive Jim or Scott (or anyone here) make an incorrect statement or respond with obscure or incomplete info (for whatever reason) which does not really serve to help to inform the requester. If gurus deign to participate here, then I deign to hold them to a high standard, and if I perceive any slackness on their part I'm probably gonna say so. If that happens to embarrass, or antagonize, or get anyone's butt into a frenzy, then so be it. They ought to know better, and if they don't then hopefully someone else if not me will be around to let them know so, and the entire forum will be the better for having correct/helpful info instead of wrong and non-helpful info available here.

Tough love. Even newborn babes need a slap to wake 'em up.

So stop whinging about insufficient/secret info and go educate y'self!

Blimey!
Me thinks a raw nerve had been hit here.
Your so flamin' clever.
But ya still don't say anything useful.
As for learning new info, a user forum is exactly one of the places where one would expect to get some.
So sorry if it was me who asked the wrong questions, but hey 'take a chill pill'.