2012/11/12 13:57:47
TremoJem
 What should I be looking for to control the levels coming out of this interface before they go into Sonar? Is it "Motu Cuemix Console"? I actually just realized I can't control input levels in Sonar. I arm a track and adjust the trim on the interface to make sure the meter on the interface is NOT clipping and then I "think" I am doing the same in Sonar with the "Trim" or "Gain" setting in Sonar, but everyone hear says that is NOT happening. So in theroy. Plug instrument/mic into one of eight input/preamps in the Motu 8Pre interface. Adjust level within the confines of that interface with the gain knob on the interface, using the meter on the interface to determine clipping levels and make sure there is no clipping. Adjust output of the interface as it goes into the input of the Sonar application using the interfaces software mixing tool. Keep in mind to check for clipping in Sonar as it is monitoring the input levels only at this point. Let me know if I am close to understanding this...thanks.
2012/11/12 16:26:27
Cactus Music
Seems you answered your question. 
Yes , Sonar and all recording software for that matter, receives whatever the sound card/ audio interface throws at it. 
The levels are set at the interface and with some sound cards/interfaces, there is also a software mixer. 
For sure you don't want to overload the interface pre amps. 

2012/11/12 20:54:12
bitflipper
I only use CueMix for setting live monitoring levels. You shouldn't have to worry about the levels going out to the computer, as long as you're not clipping you'll be OK.
2012/11/13 08:43:19
TremoJem
 bitflipper, I thank you for your response. I hoped you would respond, as you have some Motu gear. So if I plug an instrument/mic into any input on the 8Pre and then set the level for a good signal that is not clipping by using the meter on the front panel (I try to keep it at yellow with no red coming on) I am getting a good input signal, right. I do this while Sonar has the channels armed so I can see those levels too, but as I learned yesterday I can't make any changes to those levels as it is only monitoring the signal and in no way having any affect on the signal. So what if it is clipping in Sonar, which it is? Is there something I am missing between the 8Pre and Sonar that allows me to make that adjustment so that I have good non-cilpping signal on one side of the 8Pre but cut signal before Sonar that keeps Sonar from clipping...for example an output control from the 8Pre that says I have great clean signal coming out of the 8Pre, but here is a SW application that allows you to control the input at the Sonar end? Also, because I am a newbie, I don't understand track assignments. For example: to cut my teeth on this new adventure, I meet with my bass player and drummer every week for a jam/rehearsal session. I record us and burn to CD for us to use to kinda get inspired and use some of the jams in writing sessions, plus it gets me in front of the new studio (Sonar/8Pre) to understand and learn how to use it so we can actually record properly the songs we actually finish writing. So here are a few questions. Should I capture everything as a mono audio track, and can I still pan those tracks if captured that way, later in the mixdown? When I open Option/Audio/Driver Tab, should I see 8 tracks options? When I look at an input for any track it allows me to select a track assignment, and I don't understand what it all means, and I don't even have 8 available to me. Maybe I am stupid but I thought I would see 8 choices, one for each input and then just assign the instruments accordingly. Thanks so much for your help. Oh and one last thing, when I type these correspondences I hit the return to break up the paragraphs for easier reading, yet when I post it, it just comes out as one big paragraph...any suggestions?
2012/11/13 10:56:16
Cactus Music
If your not seeing all the inputs you might not be using the ASIO drivers. 
Go to audio options and make sure your in ASIO mode. 
While your there check the "Drivers" tab and make sure all the MOTU inputs are checked. 
Make sure your on board sound card is disabled and NOT on the list or greyed out. 
You inputs will show up looking something like this

Left Motu Mike in  1 ( this is input 1 ) 
Right Motu mike in 1 ( this is input 2 ) 
Stereo Motu Mike in  1 ( this is used if you combine 1 &2 as a stereo track) 
Left Motu Mike in  3 ( this is input 3 )  
Right Motu mike in 3 ( this is input 4 )  
For recording your band you should set up a template that has all 8 inputs pre assigned to a track. Name each track etc. Save this template. 

 

2012/11/13 11:04:51
bitflipper
(Tip: you might consider using Chrome instead of Firefox for this forum. It will allow you to insert paragraph breaks.)

Yes, make sure you're not clipping the 8pre and you'll be OK. You physically cannot clip SONAR at this point; incoming data will always be clean as long as you're not distorting the 8pre's own analog circuitry. 

You may see the signal going into the red on SONAR's meters, but it's not clipping - perhaps just a little too hot, which is not a problem. Just lower it after recording and all will be fine. Ideally, you'll want your tracks to peak around -12db within SONAR, give or take. If you find yourself doing this a lot, bring the gain down on your interface. It's not necessary to record everything hot like in the old days. That's the beauty of 24-bit digital audio.

For recording your jam sessions (I assume you're the guitarist), I'd take a line out from the bass amp and record that to a mono track, and use a single microphone in front of the guitar amp to also record that to a second mono track. For drums, it depends on how many microphones you want to set up, but each microphone should be recorded onto a separate mono track. 

So yes, the short answer is record everything in mono.

To select an interface input for a given track, you'll select it from the dropdown list. The listing may be a little confusing, though, because two adjacent channels can be treated either as 2 mono inputs or as a single stereo pair. Just think of the interface as being essentially a mono device and ignore the stereo designations (unless you're recording a hardware synthesizer's stereo output).

2012/11/13 11:54:59
TremoJem
 Thanks Cactus Music! I am indeed using ASIO and I do see what you describe and thought it was very confusing, until explained to me today on the forum. I have recently disabled many things to optimize my PC and one of them is the internal sound card. I currently have a template set up and it has six audio tracks, as that is all the mics I have for now. I will change this to reflect your suggestion and include in the naming process the input number for example Track One = Guitar I1, Track Two = Bass I2, etc. Thanks so much. Any ideas on the output of the Motu clipping my input on Sonar? BitFlipper has said not to worry and I agree, as the last recording came out much better, even though at the time I did not know that my settings in Sonar of the trim/gain slider had no effect on what I was capturing. Go figure.
2012/11/13 12:37:55
TremoJem
Thanks bitflipper, I am careful not to clip the Motu and yes, I agree, I love the fact that we don't have to burn so hot.

I just have to figure out how to get a good CD burn, as this always suffers a huge loss in gain, but I have started using Boost11 and that has helped. Maybe I should bounce everything in a song to a stereo track before exporting, as I heard that adds some dB...I don't really know though.

I have been peaking at around -6 dB and I have heard -10 dB or -12 dB, but don't really know which is the way to go, so I should definitely try -6 dB against -12 dB and see what works best, thanks.

I do, indeed use line out for the bass. I will now use only mono tracks as you suggested. I use one for bass, one for guitar and four for drums, this is because the mics were given to me and they are crap, so we are just poking and hoping, but work every week to see what will improve the track quality...garbage in-garbage out.

We, of course, are planning on buying all new mics, cables and stands. I am researching everything "recording" as you can imagine, "how to record guitar" how to record drums" mixing", and 'mastering". It is all overwhelming and with a full time job there is not enough time to visit with the wife and family, let alone golf or fly fish.

Oh well I digress.

Thanks again Brother and good luck in the future, when you retire and start you full time studio in that exotic far away location you mention on your link...oh and good stuff too, man you really get busy don't you. Your songs are very cool indeed.


2012/11/13 15:56:45
Cactus Music
I'm glad Dave ( Bitflipper) explained the clipping as I think this must be a little different for each interface. My Tascam only has peak LED's that go from green to red so I use the Sonar track meter. 
When recording a band live I tend to go on the lower side just in case. Digital overload is nasty and cannot be repaired, were as a low level is easy to bring up later. 

As far as making a CD before you go home, what I was doing was make everyone bring a USB flash drive. At $8 each 

And yes your going to find that Sonars bare bones export will be a little lower in volume than what has become the ridiculous standard now. 
I would not use Boost11 
Use the ,, oh oh your still on Sonar 7 ,, 
I was going to recommend the Linear Compressor LP64Multi Band. 
I have had excellent results with that,  Boost 11 will work but it squashes  frequencies all at once, A multi band compressor lets the music breath a little more. 


2012/11/13 18:58:11
bitflipper

Put down the Boost11 and back away slowly...no one needs to get hurt!

There are free limiters out there that do a better job than Boost11. 

And thanks for the kind words, TremoJem.
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