Thanks again Cactus Music and BitFlipper. You earned the kind words so no problem.

Any suggestions on a good free limiter, or I can just google it and look at what users say about them, thanks again.

I might, but am not sure, have the LP64. I think it was included in the Producer Edition, I will check. Just checked on the website and yes it is included...GREAT! So this should be better than a free online one or not?


O.K. so here is what I found last night:

Using ASIO I have Right/Left/Stereo with 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 7 and 8.

Using WDM I have Right/Left/Stereo with 1 and 1 and 1, 3 and 3 and 3, 5 and 5 and 5, 7 and 7 and 7.

So thank you to both of you as now I know what I am dealing with and understand that in ASIO Right/Left 1 and 1 is really input one and two on the interface. And, if using WDM Right/Left 1 and 2 is really input 1 and 2 on the interface. 

You would think MOTU could have included this in their literature, oh well.

So I set up my inputs correctly now with Sonar and have them as mono by selecting the correct Right/Left 1 and 1 using ASIO, as I think I read that ASIO has lower and fewer latency problems.

Also when in track view I clicked on the icon located on the bottom of each track that selects stereo or mono it kinda looks like eight lines stacked vertically where the outside lines are higher and get smaller as you move inwards to the center. If you click it it cuts out one side icon leaving four lines going from max to minimum from left to right. It reminds me of the icon used to identify volume control on most computer applications. I need to find out what this really does, as when I started this journey three or four weeks ago, I would click on this and it would change the level meter from two thin meters to one fat meter. I have since changed that meter to reflect little hash marks instead of a solid line and changing that stereo icon has not effected that meter. Oh well, I am learning.

I tell you what though, because of forums like this and great guys like you I really have learned alot while stumbling along. I mean, really, I am recording and it is working for me, but as you can imagine you just want to download knowledge and experience in a one time dump from a flash drive to you brain and be a journeyman all at once so that you can make "good" recordings and have no issues, but that is not possible and the journey is part of the fun I guess.

Thanks again guys.

Stumbling is, in fact, the preferred and most widely-adopted approach. I think it appeals to our primitive hunter-gatherer brains, wherein stumbling onto some knowledge triggers the same joy of discovery that our distant ancestors experienced when they happened upon a previously-undiscovered berry patch. It probably also explains why some people enjoy shopping at the mall.

For a good free limiter, grab vladg's Limiter No. 6. It's quite versatile, but unfortunately also a little complicated. If you want something that's simpler to use but also very good, there's the venerable W1 Limiter. Another one is MeldaProduction's MLimiter, which is part of a free bundle of effects. But if you've got 20 bucks to spend, TB Barricade is comparable to much more expensive products.

 Nice, thanks BitFlipper! Good to hear from you.

Well I just finished mixing down and burning to CD my last project and it sounds like crap.

Any hints on LP64?

I increase the levels and when I do this my meter on the bounced stereo track that I am exporting starts to clip or go into the red.

Do I disregard this and only pay attention to LP64s meters?

Thanks guys.

You need to insert the limiter after the LP64, so that the limiter is the very last plugin in the master bus fx chain. 

Also avoid large boosts with the LP64. If large boosts are required, try to do the boosting at the track level rather than on the bus. 

If SONAR's meters indicate incoming levels on the master that are above about -6db, you can use the Trim slider to lower it.

O.K. here is what I am doing, so that you can determine what I am doing wrong.

Each track is individually EQ'd and if necessary reverb is added or delay and finally levels are set.

I then creat a bus for all drum tracks.

I then create a bus for all guitar tracks.

I mix the two busses with the bass track for a final mix.

I bounce these tracks onto a new stereo track.

I use LP64 on this track and then export it to a wave file.

So what am I doing wrong, or should I just get the books back out and reread what I read a long time ago and never got a chance to practice...LOL.

Well your very close and your way will work but there's no reason to bounce the tracks to a stereo mix. Just export the mix. You can then bring this back in to mess with if you don't own software for mastering. 

I sometimes do not even make sub mix busses if the track count is sparce. 
Efx's like reverb I use efxs sends ( busses) so that all tracks can share the same "space" it's a common fault to try too many different "spaces" in a mix. it creates mud. Start with nothing and slowly mix in your "space"  this can make or break your soundscape. 

The LP64 goes on your master buss in the efx bin. As Dave said, use it very lightly. 
I find by having it there it will show me if a certain frequency spectrum is hot or cold. It also catches any stray overs. If it's overworking it will sound bad, adjust the mix at the tracks level until each frequency just tickles the meters.  

All you need to do is perfect you mix so it sounds the way you want then export it. 
Your sort of mastering while mixing by adding the lp64 and in a way this should be a second step but it has been working very well for me. 

I then "master"" the stereo track in Wave Lab to tweak the rest. 

"Each track is individually EQ'd and if necessary reverb is added or delay and finally levels are set." - OK 

 "I then create a bus for all drum tracks." - OK 

"I then create a bus for all guitar tracks." - OK 

"I mix the two busses with the bass track for a final mix." - OK 

"I bounce these tracks onto a new stereo track." - Not necessary, just route them to a third bus that itself is routed to the main outputs. No bouncing required. 

"I use LP64 on this track and then export it to a wave file." - Let's split this into two steps and add a third step:
    - insert the LP64 on the third (master) bus that you routed the drum and guitar busses to
    - insert a limiter after the LP64 and adjust the average RMS to a value appropriate for your musical genre, limiting peaks to -0.3db or less (my own preference is to limit to a more conservative -1.0db). If you're not sure about what RMS values are appropriate, import some reference songs from your favorite bands and compare to your own.
     - now you're ready to export

Cactus Music and BitFlipper

Thanks so much for taking the time to carry me on this.

Reading your answers only confirms my lack of knowledge and experience with this.

I will apply your suggestions and also make some time for reading and watching the videos on Cakewalks YouTube Channel.

I don't fully understand how to use the FX Bus. I took the "I don't know any better" approach and thought that if I clicked on any track and then right licked (to the left of the tracks) the FX box, and selected an FX, I was golden, but it sounds like I am muddying up the mix, but I don't know how to manage an FX bus. If I add FX to an FX bus, how do I assign it to a single track. Is it as simple as a drop down that allows me to assign it?

I can try this by just doing it, as this is what I have done since I started this journey a few months ago. I basically just click on things and learn as I go...sorry for that, I have read the literature and watched many videos, but that was awhile ago. Unfortunately, when I had the SW I had no practical way to use it, as I had nothing else, like an interface, mics etc. So all of the reading etc. never got applied and therefore was lost, so to speak. 

Thanks again...I will update after I dig in.

Hey guys I am auditioning studio monitors tomorrow to get away from headphones, unless you think the money is better spent on better headphones for mixing and mastering. My budget is $300.00. So true or false: listen for monitors that will better represent the kind or style of music we record. And, true or false: if I audition a CD from a professionally mixed and mastered CD of a professional band that represents my kind or style of music that I am going for it should sound good to my ears right away. And, true or false: my room is 10x11 so I should size my new monitors to that size, for example a 5" driver and 1" tweeter two way, bi-amped speaker rated at 85 watts is better than a 8" driver and 1" tweeter rated at 150 watts, also bi-amped and two way. Thanks Brothers!