• SONAR
  • Demo - X2 Crash on program changes - here it be!
2012/11/13 21:03:35
SuperG

OK folks,

If you want to see what the issue is with all the complaints about the PRV and/or track 'notes' view and their seemingly strange behavior.

It's an issue whenever there is patch changes (program changes) within a midi track and you display in piano roll mode. Took a while to boil this down to specific circumstances - before then it would seem to be random.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0Zhbd0ut4

-Gene-
2012/11/13 21:13:04
Splat
Please definately send that vid to Cakewalk:
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/problemreport.aspx
2012/11/13 21:44:35
SuperG
CakeAlexS


Please definately send that vid to Cakewalk:
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/problemreport.aspx

Done. I sent them a description, the video link, and the project bundle as well. Support doesn't often get an issue handed to them in that much detail, but then again I'm a Software Engineer....


-Gene-
2012/11/26 17:15:37
bjornpdx
I have the exact same problem. I submitted a report to Cakewalk and they replied with: "The problem you are experiencing is most likely a system specific problem or a configuration issue that we believe can be resolved with assistance from Cakewalk Technical Support." Well, this doesn't happen in X1 on the same system, just X2.
2012/11/26 21:43:18
SuperG
bjornpdx


I have the exact same problem. I submitted a report to Cakewalk and they replied with: "The problem you are experiencing is most likely a system specific problem or a configuration issue that we believe can be resolved with assistance from Cakewalk Technical Support." Well, this doesn't happen in X1 on the same system, just X2.

It's not a system specific error - and I am a seasoned software engineer. They have a lot of explaining to do concerning why the problem is not present in X1, but is in X2. Basically, that video demonstrates it in a nutshell, there's no way you can deny it.  You can have both X1 and X2 installed and switch between them to demonstrate the difference!


If you want to embarrass the poor souls in technical support, you certainly could give them a call, but there's no way they'll solve this over the phone. It's either an issue within sonar X2 itself or the run-time libraries it is using (if incorrect versions are being loaded).

It has the feel (smell?) of a 'fence-post' error (in software lingo), since CC and program changes and such must be treated separately from note data in many cases, and it be really easy to mess up an index or pointer if CC or non-note indexes were off or incorrect - which would give you a crash.

I'm hoping sooner or later one of the developers gets bitten by it- sometimes that's the only time people will acknowledge an issue.

Not happy! 


2012/11/27 00:03:30
swamptooth
oh, interesting... you're using the aria player.  i never really expose notes in the track view, so this was my chance. i got all kinds of weird results when i did that with the aria vst. nothing else - not even kontakt, massive, dimension or rapture in the project did anything near the funkiness that happened with aria.  all kinds of screen weirdness. which version are you using??  aria does not accept program changes - so, i would open the vst properties for it and make sure translate bank/program changes is unchecked.  

the new version of aria is totally wonky, not exposing keyswitches for several garritan patches in the interface, and the convo reverb has issues as well.  

you said you downloaded this midi file from online - if you point me to it i'd be happy to pull it into sonar and map it to aria to see what happens. sorry i can't be of more help but i'm running x1 producer but i'd like to see what this file does in my system. 


2012/11/28 23:22:10
SuperG
swamptooth


oh, interesting... you're using the aria player.  i never really expose notes in the track view, so this was my chance. i got all kinds of weird results when i did that with the aria vst. nothing else - not even kontakt, massive, dimension or rapture in the project did anything near the funkiness that happened with aria.  all kinds of screen weirdness. which version are you using??  aria does not accept program changes - so, i would open the vst properties for it and make sure translate bank/program changes is unchecked.  

the new version of aria is totally wonky, not exposing keyswitches for several garritan patches in the interface, and the convo reverb has issues as well.  

you said you downloaded this midi file from online - if you point me to it i'd be happy to pull it into sonar and map it to aria to see what happens. sorry i can't be of more help but i'm running x1 producer but i'd like to see what this file does in my system. 





Sure, Swampy, I do much thank you for taking a look - it's always good to have a sanity check - nothing wrong with that.

http://tinyurl.com/br5f62r

That points to my personal website and jk_tmarc.mid - just right-click and save target. The original source for this is http://www.classicalarchives.com. You can download up to five free midi's a day (count 'em)! The quality is ~fair, but there's usually work quite a bit of work to do to beat them into shape. This one's middle of the road - but I like a challenge. No tempo map - have to listen to a recording by ear and use that as a guideline and create one...argh..

I just double-checked it - you can immediately go to the cellos track and put in 'notes' mode. If you last more than 5 seconds, I'll be amazed.

I also checked it with no synths loaded at all - still ba-boom... Not an Aria issue - didn't think it was - proper devices are supposed to simply ignore commands they don't support. However, they are supposed to properly decode them to keep the data stream in sync...

...but.. I have very good news! Got a couple of e-mails from CW stating the issue has been submitted to the development staff. (Alright! ..hope the video and sample proj I submitted did the trick!)




2012/11/29 23:28:10
swamptooth
i love doing orchestral virtualizations, so no problem.  

here are my results...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...k&feature=youtu.be
2012/11/29 23:36:00
stratman70
SuperG


bjornpdx


I have the exact same problem. I submitted a report to Cakewalk and they replied with: "The problem you are experiencing is most likely a system specific problem or a configuration issue that we believe can be resolved with assistance from Cakewalk Technical Support." Well, this doesn't happen in X1 on the same system, just X2.

It's not a system specific error - and I am a seasoned software engineer. They have a lot of explaining to do concerning why the problem is not present in X1, but is in X2. Basically, that video demonstrates it in a nutshell, there's no way you can deny it.  You can have both X1 and X2 installed and switch between them to demonstrate the difference!


If you want to embarrass the poor souls in technical support, you certainly could give them a call, but there's no way they'll solve this over the phone. It's either an issue within sonar X2 itself or the run-time libraries it is using (if incorrect versions are being loaded).

It has the feel (smell?) of a 'fence-post' error (in software lingo), since CC and program changes and such must be treated separately from note data in many cases, and it be really easy to mess up an index or pointer if CC or non-note indexes were off or incorrect - which would give you a crash.

I'm hoping sooner or later one of the developers gets bitten by it- sometimes that's the only time people will acknowledge an issue.

Not happy! 


It's great that you found this but your pompus attitude is not needed. Who cares how seasoned you are-They have a lot of explaining to do??? If you want to emabarrass them??? You have zero class pal, zero.
2012/11/30 00:17:19
SuperG
stratman70


SuperG


bjornpdx


I have the exact same problem. I submitted a report to Cakewalk and they replied with: "The problem you are experiencing is most likely a system specific problem or a configuration issue that we believe can be resolved with assistance from Cakewalk Technical Support." Well, this doesn't happen in X1 on the same system, just X2.

It's not a system specific error - and I am a seasoned software engineer. They have a lot of explaining to do concerning why the problem is not present in X1, but is in X2. Basically, that video demonstrates it in a nutshell, there's no way you can deny it.  You can have both X1 and X2 installed and switch between them to demonstrate the difference!


If you want to embarrass the poor souls in technical support, you certainly could give them a call, but there's no way they'll solve this over the phone. It's either an issue within sonar X2 itself or the run-time libraries it is using (if incorrect versions are being loaded).

It has the feel (smell?) of a 'fence-post' error (in software lingo), since CC and program changes and such must be treated separately from note data in many cases, and it be really easy to mess up an index or pointer if CC or non-note indexes were off or incorrect - which would give you a crash.

I'm hoping sooner or later one of the developers gets bitten by it- sometimes that's the only time people will acknowledge an issue.

Not happy! 


It's great that you found this but your pompus attitude is not needed. Who cares how seasoned you are-They have a lot of explaining to do??? If you want to emabarrass them??? You have zero class pal, zero.

Pompous?  

I'm not sure what chip you have on your shoulder, but if it makes you feel someone is being uppity it's not doing you any good - because I don't know you from Adam.


Being handed the brush-off by technical support is insulting - it is not acceptable to take advantage of someone merely because of their level of knowledge or understanding. That type of treatment demands a response, and if someone who knows better can deliver it, so much the better.

Customer support is a tough, demanding job. (Yes, I've done that too, - add that to your list..) CS reps are caught between trying to assist customers of varying capability and working around (possibly unknown, undocumented) faults within the product. It can be grueling, and it's all too tempting to attribute faults to the customer or his equipment in order to close the matter, even if it's being done unconsciously. That should never be done and no-one should ever stand for it. This isn't to say that there aren't unreasonable individuals that contact CS, but reps and their manager are used to and prepared for that.



I do need to mention that CS has forwarded on the issue, and I am grateful for that. I don't don't hold any enmity towards CS either, none of us are perfect.


My loyalty to Sonar is based upon what it can do for me - and it does a lot. Still, our relationship is based on the exchange of money. I'll be here until something better comes along.
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