John


First the start menu is there. Its called Start.  It can be customized and it works well. You don't need the old start button.  I have Classic Shell yet I find it not as needed as I thought. 

Because something is new or different doesn't mean its worst automatically. It might be a better way. 

Hey John,
 
So what you're saying is: the "steering wheel" IS there, it's just that it's thrown somewhere in the trunk and you have to find and put it back on :) ... Either that or use the SQUARE steering wheel they provide out of the box...  lol
 
On a serious note - I agree, new is not bad and as I've stated my only Win 8 experience has been limited. I've also had a Windows phone, that introduced me to the whole sliding tile feature, that I thought would be great upon purchase, but found to be annoying and uncomfortable after a while. But that's just me, to others the tile concept may be heaven.
 
Still, the point stands - Win 8 is geared (out of the box anyway) towards the touch screen tablet market... isn't it? Just seems to me like it's a tool that tries to straddle the PC/tablet market therby needing adjustment because it really can't do both (either IT to you or you to IT).
 
At the end of the day, I hate to say this, but an OS has to feel comfortable and attractive to you. For me this would mean a lean and fast OS (I hear 8 is like that) but also one I feel comfortable with (for me 8 does not have that).
 
Sort of like how all clothes can serve the function of covering you and keeping you warm, but you still go shopping for something you like and you think suits you and your needs.
 
To show you how much I wanted 8 to work for me, I'll tell you this: I actually seriously considered adding a touch screen monitor to my setup to touch-screen my way through Sonar and other programs I have. Unles you have a stylus though, it's NOT very precise... and also, the whole touchscreen thingy becomes cumbersone as you have to move it (the screen) to certain close positions in order to have access to touch it comfortably.

Windows 8 works well without a touch screen. I'm not sure why one would think one is needed. I look at touch screens as a way to replace the mouse when using one is not ideal.  That would be using a laptop on your lap for example. Still a mouse is a very workable way to use a GUI. 

The notion that the start screen is in the trunk is rather baffling to me considering its the first thing you see after log on.  Also dual monitors are much better supported in Windows 8. 

For me the amount of clicking has gone down with Windows 8. 

I agree with John in that I find the Start screen works fine although it takes some getting used to on a non touchscreen device. To me, on a touch-screen, Win8 really starts to come into its own. It's still nice that people can put it back to Win7 familiarity relatively easily though and get the start back.

FWIW: I don't agree with Jakob Nielsen at all. :-) Nor the methodology. Sticking some newbs in front of an OS and judging its "usability" based on an initial learning curve is only getting at one aspect of the OS and ignores its long-term usability and performance for a user who is past the learning curve and using it day to day for productivity. In other words,  learning curves can pay off in the long run.

Brandon Ryan [Roland
]

I agree with John in that I find the Start screen works fine although it takes some getting used to on a non touchscreen device. To me, on a touch-screen, Win8 really starts to come into its own. It's still nice that people can put it back to Win7 familiarity relatively easily though and get the start back.

FWIW: I don't agree with Jakob Nielsen at all. :-) Nor the methodology. Sticking some newbs in front of an OS and judging its "usability" based on an initial learning curve is only getting at one aspect of the OS and ignores its long-term usability and performance for a user who is past the learning curve and using it day to day for productivity. In other words,  learning curves can pay off in the long run.

Brandon you got to the core of the problems I saw with his report. I am finding a ton of things about Windows 8 that are counter to how we used all previous versions yet never questioned them. You have to sit down with it and loose all prejudice, things you did before and see it as a total new user experience. I would submit its way better.   


Take for example  the most obvious, right off the bat, thing we tend to do is click on something to give it focus. This isn't needed with win 8 for say logging on. Its already in focus. There is no way for it not to have focus.  You want to find a program from the start screen, How? When there are no buttons for searching. How about just typing the name.  It brings up search instantly with the program before you have a chance to finish typing. 

As you say Brandon win 8 would shine on a touch screen yet here is the most important thing about win 8. Its cross platform. If you know it on one device you know it on all.  

There are some things that MS could do to improve win 8 but as a first release its a winner. I think we need to be very careful what quotes we listen to about it. I do remember the Apple campaign to discredit Vista. Don't let that happen again. See if there is a motive for someone bashing it. It may not be apparent but look into their funding. 

There is a lot of great improvements in Windows 8. I just ran across one the other day. At least its new to me. When you copy or move files there is an information dialog that will pop up to let you know its being copied. You have all sen it. However, if you click on the little advanced icon you will get a graphical display with a readout of how quick its being copied. 

I am sure as time goes on I will find a lot of neat improvements. One that may have missed some of you is to right click on the lower left corner. A quick menu will appear for system house keeping. Each corner has a purpose.

Just so you know Brandon X2 and Windows 8 are working beautifully on my machine. 

I have been using sonar 8 with Windows 8 since November 3rd.
I am quite happy I upgraded from XP 32bit to Windows 8 64bit.
Anyone would be. Luckily my audio interface (Echo GINA 3G) had drivers for Windows 7 that work fine on Windows 8.
Could be the new Samsung SSD, but Sonar is faster and more stable than ever before.

Could be the new Samsung SSD

Yeah - that will definitely have something to do with it
 
I'm using one of these (Samsung SSD) for my system drive and another for my audio drive - and they make a *huge* difference. ;-)
 
FWIW - I'm loving Windows 8. I had a few teething problems that had to be ironed out, but it's working fine now. I just think using start8 (for a start menu) is a little easier for grabbing programs that you use a lot. The alternative is to stick a tile for each of them on the start screen - and that's not the end of the world either.
 
The most important thing is that it seems to work with most drivers etc.
 
On my non music PC - I had an issue with the Flash plugin in Firefox (you have to turn off protected mode for flash in a config file), and Corel Paintshop Pro X1 wouldn't load (I had to upgrade to X5). Other than that, I had to reinstall my printer driver and Kaspersky IS to get them to work - and now everything seems to be fine.
 
If I'd done a clean install it might have been easier - but then it takes a whole weekend to reinstall/reactivate everything...

I have quickly learned to really like Win 8.

There is a small learning/cursing curve, but it is really a slick implementation and well positioned for lots of devices out there.

I am in the process now of re-installing all of my software, as I forced a clean boot on purpose.

Bob Bone

I will note that for my Audiobox 1818 VSL the legacy driver that works with Win 7 will NOT work with Win 8 - there is a Win 8 driver there, but one cannot revert back to the legacy one.  Just noting that for anyone else who has the same interface.

The Win 8 interface drivers seems to be working OK.  It plays Windows Media Player tunes just fine, but I still have to install 8.5.3, X1d. and X2 and test them out. along with all of my synth software.

But, so far so good, 

Bob Bone

How about just typing the name. It brings up search instantly with the program before you have a chance to finish typing.

 
John not to quibble but this is available in the Win 7 start menu. Many users don't use it because it is unusual to them.
 
I do agree with the assessment that just because a given user doesn't understand the new methodology (I dislike 'paradigm') that does not make it bad. It makes it unfamiliar. I vaguely recall sitting at a DOS prompt trying to understand the syntax of the Copy command...the whole <source>, <destination> really threw me for a loop.
 
Regards,

They have really slimmed this version down just when software bloat seemed irreversible.

Yes, for years MS has been playing catch up with the hardware, which was far outpacing Windows progress. Why write tight code when you can just throw hardware at it? Now they are trying to cram Windows onto the least capable machines available, laptops, tablets and smart phones. The driving force is not processor power, but battery life. It had better look like it is loading fast, and keep only the necessary services running, when the best practical battery time on most of its target devices is a couple of hours. So many of the good design decisions in Win 7 have been tossed in favor of extended battery life. Why write code for people who use plugged in computers when most customers just need an internet connection? The multimedia thrust in the future is going to be streaming video. With any luck they will keep the audio code fast and capable, if only to keep it out of the way of video downloads their minions crave.