Hi everybody
Sorry I am a newbie to both midi and this forum
I am trying to work out my best way of expanding the tyros midi sequencer which only has 16 channels. So my first thought is to Try Sonar which has more channels available.
my problem is if I take a midi file that I have recorded on the tyros and put that in Sonar to play back through using the voices on the tyros I am not getting back exactly the same as if I play the same file directly on the tyros. i.e. A fuzz guitar loses it's vibrato.
I hope someone can help. I just need to be sure that I can get a faithfull reproduction.
Many thanks
Shrek

The MIDI file you exported and then imported either:

1) Is missing some controller data that controls parameters like vibrato (see the MIDI implementation for the Tyros)
2) Contains the CC data but it was not imported into Sonar
3) CC data was imported into Sonar but is not being sent to Tyros, or is being sent on the wrong MIDI channel
4) Tyros is not responding to CC messages from Sonar

Now, I could be completely wrong about all of this, but I'd start eliminating each of these possibilities one by one.

Regards,
Dan

Hi Dan
Many thanks for your very quick reply and thank you for the checklist
I think I can rule out item 1 as the data has to be there for the tyros to play the midi file back internally. But I am no expert here so perhaps you could advise me if that is wrong.
How can I check the rest
Many thanks again
Shrek

Hmm..

One issue is that a controller won't put out a CC value if you don't change it. So - there may not be the proper CC in the file.

But an easy way to check is to record 1 second of the keyboard and open that track in the list view to see if that controller is there. Even better, you can record one second with you just modifying the controller vibrato level (right?) on the keyboard then seeing if it got picked up. 

On the Tyros line, the sounds you hear from the panels may not be called up by your MIDI sequence because the Tyros uses effects and processing that are not part of the core sound.  I was quite disappointed with this, but there is a work-around, although a painful one.

Create a song entirely on the Tyros.  It can be very short—just one note long if you like—but at the first of that song, press the panel buttons to call up the sounds you want for each of the voices you want.  Save that to a USB drive and then load it into Sonar.

Now your Sonar MIDI file will have all the Sysex commands to create the sounds as you hear them on the Tyros.

A lot of sounds, like the concert guitar, piano, strings, etc. should sound fine without all this trouble.  It is mainly the electric guitar sounds and a few others that depend heavily on the panel effects.

A few notes:
• If there is a style with the sounds you want, that is a quick way to create the song.  You may even know how to change the sounds in a style.
• Be sure you know how to turn local control off and on.  ON when you create your song.  OFF when you use Sonar.  Sonar will probably turn Local OFF for you when it starts.
• If you have Sonar running and connected to the Tyros, the Tyros will probably not play normally.
• If the Tyros plays back weird sounds when controlled by Sonar, turn it off and on.  Sometimes if you go from Local/Tyros only to Sonar, the Tyros gets confused.  I feared a bad hardware problem at first, but it was just a communication issue. 
• I think I read that you can only use the DSP effects on a limited number of sounds at once, but that has never been a problem for me.  As I said above, there are only a few sounds that need those to sound right.

I was frustrated and disappointed by this when I bought the Tyros 2 as it was quite expensive.  However, since most sounds work fine without all this hassle, it has turned out to be a good unit.  I do think Yamaha should make this keyboard more sequencer-friendly if they are going to keep producing it.  They should be able to do a software update to improve things.

By the way, I was also disappointed to learn how hard it is to create a style from scratch, but I like other things about this keyboard.

Good luck.
 
EDIT: One last thing.  You may find it easier sometimes to use the "naked" Tyros sound and use plug-ins in Sonar (like Guitar Rig) to do the processing.  The core samples in the Tyros are good and even though I have some huge sample libraries, I still use the Tyros 2 often.

Hi Guys
Many thanks for your time. It is most appreciated.
Konrad many thanks for an excellent appraisal of the problem. I am happy with my tyros in all respects except the 16 channel sequencer because on occasions I run out. I suppose another view may be to dump it down into sonar as audio when I have run out of channels and carry on with audio recording the rest of it in sonar and go for a final mixdown. Could you see any problems with that approach.
Many thanks
Shrek

Shrek, No problem, my friend.  Your approach should be fine.  For me, personally, I like the editing flexibility of Sonar so much that it is easier to work in it to begin with, even if I have to pull in a little set-up song from the Tyros once in a while.  But we each have our preferences and the idea of doing everything right there on the keyboard is very appealing!

By the way, the Tyros 3 has some incredible sounds: quite a nice instrument.

I am releasing a CD in a few weeks.  One of the songs was arranged on the T2 and then pulled into Sonar.  I added some sounds in Sonar and changed some things, but I got the basic feel and much of the arrangement from a T2 style.  I still have one version of the song that runs completely on the Tyros 2 and would gladly use that in a live gig.  I like the Tyros for writing.  I pull up a style, turn off everything but the basic drums, bass, guitar, and piano, and then mess around with different chords and melody ideas.
 
Best of luck and let us hear what you create.

I think Konrad is right. Didn't even think about sysex data. Like I said, mine were just things to eliminate.

Regards,
Dan