It is good that a new Cubase is coming out.  I hope it is awesome.  Competitiion will help all these DAW manufacturers make better and better products.  It is a win for the consumer.

I a still using 8.5.3 because I have had a long project going on it.  And as long as one is switching from 8.5.3 to X2, and going to have a learning curve, why not also check other DAWS.  This is good for everyone.

Craig is no anniedog that's for sure.

Anderton

mike_mccue


Would it be possible for you to articulate what SONAR's strengths are compared to the others you have mentioned?

To do this justice would require several thousands words of compare and contrast...I'll try to keep it brief. Too bad you missed my presentation at Sweetwater's GearFest where I did an Electronic Musician magazine-style roundup of all major DAWs.

Before moving over to Sonar (I didn't use Cakewalk Pro Audio), I bounced between Acid (for looping) and Cubase (for audio and MIDI). Sonar was the ONLY program at the time that could handle looping, hard disk recording, and MIDI equally well. Any limitations it had compared to Acid or Cubase were totally outweighed by my being able to do everything I needed to do in a single host program. As I've stuck with Sonar over the years, I've become really proficient at my "instrument," and that also counts for a lot.

First, let me explain why/when I use other programs.

Ableton Live: Nothing is better for live performance. Well, except for a smokin' hot guitar setup

Traktor: I really liked Torq, but I don't think it's going anywhere, and Traktor just keeps getting better and better. Sonar is NOT a DJ program. 

Reason: Despite adding Record, for me it will always be a "rewire really cool instruments into something else" program. 

Pro Tools: I collaborate with people who use Pro Tools. Sometimes I render the tracks to bring into Sonar, sometimes I work within PT. It depends on the type/complexity of the project. 

Cubase: Very comprehensive program, but more than I need. It's also more difficult to constantly swap out interfaces and studio setups than Sonar, which matters given how much stuff I review. 

Studio One Pro: A nimble, reliable program that handles the needs of most musicians, but currently lacks several strategic features that are important for what I do (e.g., edit Acidized files, MIDI plug-in support, run 32-bit plug-ins with 64-bit version, no equivalent to Matrix view). However, I use it all the time for its mastering page. No matter which DAW I used, I'd have SOP installed for the mastering page to take advantage of features like DDP and disc image export.

Sony Acid: I still have a lot of Acid projects that need the occasional remix, as well as an album that was never released in its entirety - only selected single and remixes - that I'm finishing up. 

Mixcraft Acoustica: Has basically replaced Acid when I need the absolute fastest way to put together something like a music bed for video or music library material. A lot of that is because it comes with tons of useful content, so I can throw something together without leaving the program or looking through sample libraries. 

MOTU Digital Performer: My preferred choice when working exclusively in a Mac environment. 

Reaper: I keep trying it out, but it always seems to be lacking something I need. Then it acquires that feature, but Sonar has moved on and improved as well. 

Samplitude: This is the most underrated DAW out there. I don't why it seems to be a big secret. If Sonar didn't exist, I'd probably use Studio One Pro or Samplitude.

As to why Sonar is my main DAW, it does 100% of what I need 85% of the time, and 85% of what I need to do 100% of the time . That's the highest average of any of the programs I use, but bear in mind, that's in terms of the kind of work that I do. If I did mostly hardcore audio-for-video for feature films, I'd be using DP 85% of the time. If I was doing broadcast work, it would be Sequoia 85% of the time. 

Here are the main Sonar features that are important to me.

Edit Acidized files. I have literally thousands of Acidized files and use them all the time for soundtracks and video work. Most commercially-available Acidized libraries are not acidized well and need editing. Only Sonar and Acid can do that, and Sonar is a better program for me overall than Acid.

Matrix view. I think Ableton Live is brilliant, so being able to incorporate that way of working into Sonar rather than having to deal with rewiring two separate programs is great.

V-Vocal and AudioSnap. I don't have the problems other people seem to have with these functions, and use them regularly for touching up parts. I use V-Vocal a lot with bass as well and also take advantage of the format and amplitude editing. SOP adding Melodyne was a smart move, but again, Sonar has had pitch correction for a long time so it was there when I needed it.

Workflow. This is a big one for me. For whatever reason, possibly my using it for so long, the "Sonar way of life" is congruent with the way I think. I can get things done fast, but I must say, I now get them done faster with X2. X2 has boosted my productivity dramatically, as evidenced by my posting two new songs on my YouTube channel since installing X2. I usually work at a pretty glacial pace, so I even surprised myself.

ProChannel. I love having all those elements saved as part of a project that can be transferred over to other Sonar installs, and also, the visuals of being able to see all the plug-ins centralized in one place as opposed to opening up a bunch of windows. That falls under the better workflow category. I also think the stock plug-ins are as good as pretty much anything else out there.

The Guitar Neck view. Step sequencing for guitar players

The Console Emulator. I thought this was stupid at first. Now I use it all the time. Sure, I could use a different DAW with the Slate VCC or Waves NLS, but having everything I need in one host is one of Sonar's strong points for me.

MIDI plug-ins. I live in fear that someday Sonar will drop support for these. I can't imagine editing virtual instrument parts without MIDI plug-ins. The only Windows program with better support for MIDI plug-ins is Cubase. I also like Sonar's Sys Ex support, which makes it easy to consolidate all MIDI data in a single project.

Video window. Sonar's video capabilities are fairly weak, as are most DAWs (except, curiously enough, for Mixcraft which has exceptional video options). However, what Sonar offers is perfect for what I do, as I can use Acidized files, Rex files, and tempo changes to compose music that lines up perfectly with the visuals. Bounce the music, combine it with the video file in Vegas...done.

V-Studio support. The only other program I use with a dedicated control surface is Ableton Live, thanks to the APC40. I'm a big believer in dedicated control surfaces once you learn your way around them. 

This forum. I've had so many questions answered by the many helpful and highly intelligent life forms that populate this forum. That's one reason why I post here - to try and give something back.  

Those are just off the top of my head, but they're all features that are very important to me. Those, coupled with the fact I simply don't have reliability/stability issues beyond the usual expected hiccups, make Sonar very well-suited to what I need to do. But again, it's all about what I do. I would not expect to haul hay in a Miata, or take curves at 50MPH in an SUV.

+1

Mr. Anderton is one of my heroes. Has been for many, many years. 

John


Mr. Anderton is one of my heroes. Has been for many, many years. 

I've been keeping up with him since his Electronic Projects for Musicians days.  If I'm not mistaken he was one of the original Electronic Musician Magazine people (editor/founder?).   He's a great source of information and his 'Craig's List' is usually my first read in EM.

it's an interesting read for someone who uses both sonar / cubase (and reason) . I'm wondering where at least one person is getting their wrong info from  (after reading this and the "ugly mixer GUI" thread)

I'd like to cherry pick bits of all 3 things I use BUT it partly depends on the music you make. 

e.g. if you record audio only.. then yer reason is "ok" for you, but if you use it for sketches / do programming then I find it quicker than a daw.


much like I see a few people are dismissive of loops on here, but I'd say thats more down to not using them properly rather than being dismissive.

vintagevibe


I've been keeping up with him since his Electronic Projects for Musicians days.  If I'm not mistaken he was one of the original Electronic Musician Magazine people (editor/founder?).   He's a great source of information and his 'Craig's List' is usually my first read in EM.

I have to say, "Craig's List" is soooo much fun to write but it's also really hard work. It's true what they say, writing comedy is serious business.

But your mentioning Craig's List, coupled with this thread, inspired the subject of my next Craig's List: "Five Reasons Why You're Using the Wrong DAW." It'll be in the February issue. Thank you!!!

(And yes, Electronic Musician was my idea and I'm the one who coined the term. I started editing it in 1984, left in 1990, and returned in 2011. Now that's what I call a long loop.)

Fog


I'd like to cherry pick bits of all 3 things I use BUT it partly depends on the music you make. 

e.g. if you record audio only.. then yer reason is "ok" for you, but if you use it for sketches / do programming then I find it quicker than a daw.

much like I see a few people are dismissive of loops on here, but I'd say thats more down to not using them properly rather than being dismissive.

Totally agreed on "right tool for the right job." DAWs are not a religion for me, but deadlines are so I need whatever solves my particular needs the best. 

As to loops, another +1. It's possible (and fun!) to use loops creatively. I make a lot of my own loops so again, it's a question of the right tool for the right job...making your own tools sort of guarantees they'll do the designated job.

Dismissing loops is not that different from how some people are dismissive about DJs. But I've been DJing for over a decade, and doing so has improved my music dramatically. Applying some elements of "DJ thinking" to conventional music-making ends up being far greater than the sum of the parts. I would encourage all musicians to try DJing regardless of whether or not they want to end up DJing, just as I encourage all musicians to learn about recording even if they don't want to be recording engineers. The skills you pick up are invaluable no matter what you do.

Sorry for hijacking the thread...anyway, I thought of one more reason I use Sonar that I forgot to mention: I really like the way it looks. That may seem trivial and of course it's totally subjective, but when you're staring at something for hours on end, it makes a difference.

Good Bye threads alsmost always turn into a productive conversation!!!

Hi Craig.  I have been reading your articles for years (at least since the 80s and for some reason I am thinking even the 70s) and admire your work.   If you need hard copies of early articles, I probably have them.
 
Anyway, I have been using Cakewalk from nearly the beginning up to 8.5.3.  I do think the appearance of X1 kept me away from it.  So I am glad to hear that it has worked well for you.  That is inspiring to me.
 
Thanks for all your great work.
 
AB


 
 
 
 
Anderton


. . .
Sorry for hijacking the thread...anyway, I thought of one more reason I use Sonar that I forgot to mention: I really like the way it looks. That may seem trivial and of course it's totally subjective, but when you're staring at something for hours on end, it makes a difference.
-------------------------
Hi Craig.  I have been reading your articles for years (at least since the 80s and for some reason I am thinking even the 70s) and admire your work.   If you need hard copies of early articles, I probably have them.
 
Anyway, I have been using Cakewalk from nearly the beginning up to 8.5.3.  I do think the appearance of X1 kept me away from it.  So I am glad to hear that it has worked well for you.  That is inspiring to me.
 
Thanks for all your great work.
 
AB