• SONAR
  • Console Emulation and distortion (p.2)
2012/11/10 22:16:52
sharke
I will definitely try that. 
2012/11/11 09:37:09
CJaysMusic
One of the best gain staging tips i ever heard was to dial your kick drum peak at -14db to -10db and then build all the other layers around that.

That's False!!!  Not True at all!! That's not for every song. What if your song has 40 tracks in it? If you song has 40 tracks in it, -14dB will be way way way to loud to build a song around it.
 
The volume level of your Kick or any other instrument is Relative to the Number of tracks you have in a project.
 
The more tracks you have in a song, the lower each track has to be. Because, if you have 10 tracks at -10dB, the sum of those 10 tracks will be less the the sum of 20 tracks at -10dB.
 
Its all Relative Bro. you do not start your kick at a fixed point. It depends on the track count
 
 
CJ
2012/11/11 11:02:02
bitflipper
You can get exactly the same effect on a real hardware console. The emulator is just doing its job. CE doesn't sprinkle in some kind of magic Neve-dust; "console emulation" = "distortion". And it's additive.
2012/11/11 14:48:03
jb101
As bitflipper said, the console emulation will distort if driven too hard, just like the real thing.
 
Craig Anderton also advised in another thread to be very careful about gain staging with the emulators.  If any part of the ProChannel runs too hot the Console Emulators seem to exaggerate it.  So keep an eye on the global input meter and any of the modules clip LED's.
 
I find inserting blank FXChains  into the PC are handy if one of the modules is clipping.  You can use the input/output sliders to gain stage.
2012/11/11 15:02:26
sharke
Well it's good to know that this is how a real console behaves. There are, of course, many of us who have never even used a real console before! 

jb101, what is the deal with the global input meter? Does this indicate that the ProChannel is running too hot? In the manual, it says that the global input meter is an "Activity indicator that shows if any module is processing audio."
2012/11/11 15:05:36
sharke
CJaysMusic



One of the best gain staging tips i ever heard was to dial your kick drum peak at -14db to -10db and then build all the other layers around that.

That's False!!!  Not True at all!! That's not for every song. What if your song has 40 tracks in it? If you song has 40 tracks in it, -14dB will be way way way to loud to build a song around it.
 
The volume level of your Kick or any other instrument is Relative to the Number of tracks you have in a project.
 
The more tracks you have in a song, the lower each track has to be. Because, if you have 10 tracks at -10dB, the sum of those 10 tracks will be less the the sum of 20 tracks at -10dB.
 
Its all Relative Bro. you do not start your kick at a fixed point. It depends on the track count
 
 
CJ

I guess I will play that by ear once I start getting up to that many tracks....for the 20 track project I have going right now (which is electronic based and quite kick heavy), around -11dB has proven to be an excellent starting point. Regardless of any specific level however, I think for a mixing amateur like myself starting with the kick and building the levels around it seems to make sense, at least in getting started with mix levels. 
2012/11/11 15:08:25
swamptooth
CJaysMusic



One of the best gain staging tips i ever heard was to dial your kick drum peak at -14db to -10db and then build all the other layers around that.

That's False!!!  Not True at all!! That's not for every song. What if your song has 40 tracks in it? If you song has 40 tracks in it, -14dB will be way way way to loud to build a song around it.
 
The volume level of your Kick or any other instrument is Relative to the Number of tracks you have in a project.
 
The more tracks you have in a song, the lower each track has to be. Because, if you have 10 tracks at -10dB, the sum of those 10 tracks will be less the the sum of 20 tracks at -10dB.
 
Its all Relative Bro. you do not start your kick at a fixed point. It depends on the track count
 
 
CJ

Right, which is why you build around it.  If you need to lower the kick level you do that as they cumulative layers get hotter or throw in some volume envelope automation.  I didn't mean to imply that every track should be at -10db.  There will be some in the -20s and 30s of course but the kick and (esp sub) bass will typically be hotter than most.  As you add tracks and the signal gets hotter then you do a grouped lowering of all track volume.  And, of course, if you're using say 6-10 kick drum tracks with mixes of live drums through different mics and sampled drums like a lot of r&b and dance music does then you're going to want to mix all of those to get the layered sound you want and group all the faders when you get the levels right so that you can adjust them all down as needed.  
2012/11/11 15:59:18
jb101
sharke


Well it's good to know that this is how a real console behaves. There are, of course, many of us who have never even used a real console before! 

jb101, what is the deal with the global input meter? Does this indicate that the ProChannel is running too hot? In the manual, it says that the global input meter is an "Activity indicator that shows if any module is processing audio."


If it glows red, then something's clipping.  Try it.  Have the console view and inspector open and increase the input gain.  As the gain increases the global input meter will glow red at the same time one of your PC modules clip LED goes red.
2012/11/11 19:55:05
sharke
Aha, well that makes a lot of sense. 
2012/11/11 22:11:39
clintmartin
I don't know if I like the CE or not. I'm glad I get to test and decide though.
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