Thnaks for the tip Craig.  I remember seeing that light now.

Which CE did you use-  S, N, or A?  I can hear the subtle difference-  a tad more open with a hint of sparkle to my ears.

Anderton


Yes, we DO take requests

I did a quick video with an excerpt of "When the Grid Goes Down" highlighting an A/B comparison with and without the Console Emulator plug-in.

The difference is subtle, but if you can hear the audio over a decent system, sometimes when it switches between the two options the difference is REALLY obvious.
 
I'd be interested in your take on the comparison...

Hi Craig,
 How about posting 2 audio files with matching start points so we can all use FooBar 2000 to actually do a true blind ABX comparison?

 That way we will not see the big white letters that suggest that we should be hearing some sort of change or difference.




 Then, when someone states they prefer one effect over the other, they can compare that to actual statistics provided by the ABX test results which will demonstrate whether they have actually heard any difference with which to base a preference.

 The point being some folks may be able to hear the difference 10 out of 10 times AND have a preference while other folks may able to hear the difference 0 out of 10 times AND also have a preference.



 I'd like to know, for myself, if I actually have the ability to, in this circumstance, have a preference and so I would appreciate the opportunity to be able do a true blind ABX test before I thought about whether I preferred one mix over the other.


 Foobar 2000 ABX comparison makes this easy.


 Maybe you can post FLAC or .wavs... or at least 320kbs mp3?



 best regards,
mike

mike_mccue

Anderton


Yes, we DO take requests

I did a quick video with an excerpt of "When the Grid Goes Down" highlighting an A/B comparison with and without the Console Emulator plug-in.

The difference is subtle, but if you can hear the audio over a decent system, sometimes when it switches between the two options the difference is REALLY obvious.

I'd be interested in your take on the comparison...
 

Hi Craig,
How about posting 2 audio files with matching start points so we can all use FooBar 2000 to actually do a true blind ABX comparison?

That way we will not see the big white letters that suggest that we should be hearing some sort of change or difference.




Then, when someone states they prefer one effect over the other, they can compare that to actual statistics provided by the ABX test results which will demonstrate whether they have actually heard any difference with which to base a preference.

The point being some folks may be able to hear the difference 10 out of 10 times AND have a preference while other folks may able to hear the difference 0 out of 10 times AND also have a preference.



I'd like to know, for myself, if I actually have the ability to, in this circumstance, have a preference and so I would appreciate the opportunity to be able do a true blind ABX test before I thought about whether I preferred one mix over the other.


Foobar 2000 ABX comparison makes this easy.


Maybe you can post FLAC or .wavs... or at least 320kbs mp3?



best regards,
mike

Couldn't you just do this with one of your own tracks?

I think you would get results like the ones you mention regardless of what equiptment was used. One track recorded
in a top studio and another in a home studio. Some people have good ears, others have cloth ears. Tests like this often tell you more about the people being tested (and the people doing the testing) than they do about the equiptment used, in my experience.

Craig, is there any way you could give us a rundown or take a snapshot of the CE settings and post it here. I am hearing a discernible difference in your use of the emulators that I am not hearing on my system. I think we would all like a more detailed description of how you have the tracks and busses set up up with the CEs. The sound I am getting on my system is nowhere close to the difference in yours. I know that monitors and room dimensions are going to have something to do with the responses. It's just that when you ab'ed on your video there was a WOW! moment. I'm not hearing that pronounced of a difference in my mixes. The only time I hear a pronounced effect in my mix is when I switch to the N setting. What are you setting your drive to? What about the trim? Tolerance-On or Off? I do like what little nuance I am getting. It just doesn't come close to the difference in your video.
BTW, I am a big fan of your articles. I used to wait for Guitar Player magazine to come out every month just for your articles. Ah, the younger days. LOL

jb101

Tests like this often tell you more about the people being tested (and the people doing the testing) than they do about the equiptment used, in my experience. 

Yes, I agree... anyone that takes a test while watching suggestions in big white letters either doesn't care or doesn't know how the big white letters makes the test seem more like entertainment and less like an actual comparison.



I've done a lot of ABX tests... they have taught me a whole bunch about what I think I think when I think I think I am hearing something.







It has taught me that the power of suggestion is a remarkable and effective way to promote an idea.



best regards,
mike

I always weight any opinions of users on here with what I hear they are capable of.

There are some very knowledgable types on here with links to great sounding music, even if it's not my favourite genre I can still appreciate the skill of the creator. The fact they are prepared to share their knowledge with others is a great bonus and the reason I love this site so much.

Then there are others who sound quite knowledgeable but obviously like to think they know more than they do. They spend most of their time dissing those that do like to share and encourage.

Those I tend to ignore.

I'd encourage others to think the same way.

Craig most definitely belongs in the former group BTW.

IMHO of course....

The A/B comparison is very subtle.  It sounds a bit louder with the CE engaged, which often makes people think that it sounds better.  To me, the CE is more like an analog summing amplifier than anything else.  Personally, I mix through a Mackie mixer going into an Alesis Masterlink to get that analog quality of a summing amplifier.  However, if you bounce to tracks or export your mixes sans an analog mixer, then the CEs might provide that missing element.  I'm curious, does anyone else see it that way?

I do use the CEs on stereo busses within a mix and at the end of a vocal chain.  If it gives even a slight edge, I'm happy with it.

mike_mccue


Hi Craig,
How about posting 2 audio files with matching start points so we can all use FooBar 2000 to actually do a true blind ABX comparison?
....


Maybe you can post FLAC or .wavs... or at least 320kbs mp3?



best regards,
mike

Personally, I greatly appreciate someone with Craig's wealth of experience being so willing to share and to help the SONAR community. Couldn't you just turn off your video monitor and use a stop watch to record where you hear a change and whether it is better/worse/brighter/clearer, etc and accomplish the same thing? That way you wouldn't be distracted by the white text/lines etc- 
I haven't viewed the video yet but will when I get back to my DAW. Honestly my first thought was I would listen the first time with my eyes closed just to see if I can hear the differences. Then re-listen while watching to see if my impressions matched the reality.

I think we should go back to arguing about 193kbs vs 256kbs mp3 encoding, because frankly, I could tell the difference.

Console Emulation? Not so much. How many bugs were introduced into SONAR so that we could have this "feature"?


Count me among the non-believers.


Oh, and Craig? Great song! Thanks for putting up the vid with the comparison. Very informative.

Like all things, guys, you should do your own tests before making up your minds about something like this. 

stickman393


I think we should go back to arguing about 193kbs vs 256kbs mp3 encoding, because frankly, I could tell the difference.

Console Emulation? Not so much. How many bugs were introduced into SONAR so that we could have this "feature"?


Count me among the non-believers.
 

Aside from your clear opinion on the Console Emulation - what new bugs related to PC Channel, Console Emulation etc are you seeing? There were some redraw/missing display issues but I thought the quick fix addressed those(?). What version of SONAR did you upgrade from? It's all been pretty solid here.
I believe a lot of users are really liking the PC Channel in general - I agree that console emulation is subtle - but the general consensus seems to be to build the entire mix through the console emulation modules rather than just as a final stage "effect" - which to be honest I need to spend more time with myself. Looking forward to viewing Craig's video myself.