pdarg


The Sonar documentation recommends making the CE plug the FIRST in the ProChannel chain; they don't explain why.

And yes - the effect is cumulative - so it is best to start with the plugs on, and then mix, rather than adding them as a last step.

It says that in the manual, but they had them last in the Webinar, it's last in all the presets, and Noel Borthwick suggested putting them last, as did someone from Overloud, the Console Emus developer..

stevec

Also it was playing through my computer speakers. They are not average but quite good for what they are. None the less, I did not run it through my monitors. So I figured that it was due to the setup and the fact that it was streaming audio going through a Realtec audio chip. I am not saying it didn't do anything just I couldn't hear a difference.

 
In all fairness, Craig did mention that listening thru studio monitors is the best way to hear the difference.   I haven't listened myself, but have found this thread very interesting...   (and at time entertaining)
 
Now, if only I could remember to turn those dang CEs on when starting a project, or maybe creating a template with them turned on...
 

I listened to the video through two different audio interfaces. Through my monitors and my Bose 6.1 speaker system. Also ran it through my QSCs K12s and still after all that I could not detect any difference. I tried many different combinations of audio interfaces and speakers

I listened to the video as well. I could not really tell the difference, however that doesn't mean there isn't a difference... I am not a professional engineer with trained sensitive ears. That is most likely why I don't hear the difference. 

I had a number of friends listen as well. These people are normal consumers of music, not professional musicians. They could not tell the difference either, nor did they care. However, they loved the music and in the end that is all that really counts!!

I can definitely hear the difference through my Grado headphones - more so on my own tracks than on the video of course. I don't consider my ears to be very well trained at all, and sometimes have a lot of trouble hearing subtle effects like compression. Yet I can hear the CE. It adds a little more presence, especially in the high end. 

With regard to placement in the PC, I mentioned in another post that the CE seems to add quite a lot of extra frequencies in the low to mid region as well. You can see this if you put a strong high pass filter on a track so that only the highest frequencies are coming through, then put the console emulation AFTER the EQ. With the CE turned off, there are no low frequencies at all. Turned on, you can see exactly where the CE is adding frequencies and how much, by looking at a frequency analyzer. The different types of CE behave differently - the S-Type seems only to add very low frequencies, whereas the other two add frequencies all the way into the mids. 

What this means is, if you're using a high pass filter to control mud in your track, then the console emulation is going to add some of the frequencies that the filter has removed. So if you use HPF's to this end and you don't want any new lows added, you might consider putting an EQ with a HPF after the console emulation on the track. 

Now that I know that CE can be bypassed with quick grouping, I tried doing an A/B with CE on just my busses and I actually get a slight better stereo separation with CE on.
The mix defitinitely sounds less sterile with CE on.

"less sterile" - that is a good description.

does it emulate console crosstalk?

jb101

pdarg

The Sonar documentation recommends making the CE plug the FIRST in the ProChannel chain; they don't explain why.

And yes - the effect is cumulative - so it is best to start with the plugs on, and then mix, rather than adding them as a last step.

It says that in the manual, but they had them last in the Webinar, it's last in all the presets, and Noel Borthwick suggested putting them last, as did someone from Overloud, the Console Emus developer..

This is an important factor - and we have two authoritative sources telling us opposite things.
 
Can someone from Cakewalk weigh in on this?

pdarg

jb101

pdarg

The Sonar documentation recommends making the CE plug the FIRST in the ProChannel chain; they don't explain why.

And yes - the effect is cumulative - so it is best to start with the plugs on, and then mix, rather than adding them as a last step.

It says that in the manual, but they had them last in the Webinar, it's last in all the presets, and Noel Borthwick suggested putting them last, as did someone from Overloud, the Console Emus developer..

This is an important factor - and we have two authoritative sources telling us opposite things.
 
Can someone from Cakewalk weigh in on this?

 
The only "authoritative" source I've come across to put it first is the manual.  It is possibly a mistake, or things have changed since it was written.   Everyone else involved has either used it last or suggested using it last.
 
Noel's comment on using it last was interesting - The Console Emulator is meant to add subtle characteristics to the sound.  If you compress or EQ after it you may be exaggerating that process.
 
I can see that.  He added that is was not a hard and fast rule, and to experiment.  I hope I have not misrepresented him here.

Without EMU thinner but better stereo image...distant.  With EMU warmer tighter stereo image and vocals/drums more up front.  About on par difference wise as Slate VCC but not near as pronounced as WAVES NLS.  YMMV.

Agree also about having the placebo effect of the on screen clues.  Would suggest listening...if you haven't already... with your video monitor off and at a "decent" (read loudish) volume on good montiors or phones.