Waltenstein Studios


I should also probably add that I am aware that I can always export the 1st measure (which is empty), and then trim it out of the resulting audio file.  However, I was hoping to find a solution to do it in the export step.  After all, the first note is definitely part of what I've selected for export, so I figure there must be a way to get it to export with everything else.

Thanks,

Walt

This is the easiest solution.. or alternatively you can extend your midi clip by the one measure, freeze your synths then select the region to export from wherever you wish

Thanks for your ideas Arvid.  Unfortunately, unchecking those MIDI options didn't seem to change anything at all.  However, your other idea of freezing the synth has aided my investigation further.

Strangely, when I select the midi clip in question (with selection set from 2:01:000 to 18:01:000) and then freeze it, the resulting audio clip goes from 1:04:959 to 19:04:880.  Not sure why the frozen audio would start earlier than the midi clip (and this may well be the source of the bug behind this whole problem).  Even though the frozen audio clip starts earlier than the original midi clip selection, the entire first note is missing (the first note is a single held whole note, starting at 2:01:000, so it's really obvious when it's missing). 
 
I can fix the clip freezing process by extending the midi clip to the left (with empty space) slightly, i.e. adding empty midi space from 1:03:000 to 2:01:000.  Then when I freeze the same clip (again, I've added/changed no midi notes whatsoever), the resulting audio clip selection goes from 1:02:959 to 19:04:880, but with the first note intact this time.  Again, we're still seeing that "pre-roll" from 1:02:959 to 1:03:000.

So freezing the synth before exporting does count as another possible workaround, but it still leaves the real question unanswered, although it has refined the question a bit further.  The refined question is now this:  when freezing a midi clip (which contains Reaktor 5 in this case), why does sonar not include the first note in some instances if the note starts at the exact beginning of the clip?

Walt

Thanks for your reply Mystic38.  The workarounds are fine, and not much trouble however I do the extra work.  This is more a question about why any workaround is even needed.  Shouldn't a midi note at the beginning of a selected clip be rendered by sonar when freezing a vsti synth?

I think this is a bug and I'm trying to define/isolate it for Cakewalk to look at in a future revision.

Walt

Waltenstein Studios


Thanks for your reply Mystic38.  The workarounds are fine, and not much trouble however I do the extra work.  This is more a question about why any workaround is even needed.  Shouldn't a midi note at the beginning of a selected clip be rendered by sonar when freezing a vsti synth?

I think this is a bug and I'm trying to define/isolate it for Cakewalk to look at in a future revision.

Walt

It *should* be rendered.. but there is a lot of of stuff going on such as sync and it is unclear whether its a VSTi or Sonar issue... i come from a hardware synth background so have always started at measure 2.. When a synth freezes it appears to simply looks at the clip and does not run from measure 1 so any sync issues would still need to be resolved...
As an example..i can start a clip of the Virus at measure 30... freeze it, and while the first note is played, it is delayed by a beat... grab the left edge of the clip and extend to measure 29, freeze it and its fine.
 
so..i simply make sure the first clip of any track has an extra measure and keep the frustration out of the way :)

You're right that it's unclear if this is a sonar bug.  In fact, maybe it's not a bug at all, but merely a configuration issue because I haven't tweaked some buffer setting correctly.  I just know this should work (without a workaround), so I'm curious to know if I'm doing something wrong, or if there's an actual bug that can be fixed.

Walt

nope, in my experience this is a reaktor thing. what module(s) are you using in it???
when you bounce or export in sonar, the program looks at all the data and pre-caches a lot of info... most of the midi problems in sonar happen when you play back in real time.
reaktor is a b**** to get working sometimes because the vst is just a wrapper for all the modules you can use.


under file/preferences in reaktor on the options tab uncheck "mute audio during core compilation".
the additional audio might be a result of reaktor generating its own sound (by design) depending on the module you're using - try space drone to see how this works.  also, right-click the * freeze symbol and select "freeze options" and make sure the gate settings are set ok.

oh... here's an idea... was the midi clip part of a loop before??? if so, select the range you want to keep, right-click and select bounce to clips. might be legacy junk at the beginning of it...

swamptooth


nope, in my experience this is a reaktor thing. what module(s) are you using in it???
when you bounce or export in sonar, the program looks at all the data and pre-caches a lot of info... most of the midi problems in sonar happen when you play back in real time.
reaktor is a b**** to get working sometimes because the vst is just a wrapper for all the modules you can use.


under file/preferences in reaktor on the options tab uncheck "mute audio during core compilation".
the additional audio might be a result of reaktor generating its own sound (by design) depending on the module you're using - try space drone to see how this works.  also, right-click the * freeze symbol and select "freeze options" and make sure the gate settings are set ok.

The mute audio during core compilation is already unchecked.  As for freeze options, there's a lot in there I wasn't aware of.  Thanks for the tip.


The particular module I'm using is Razor.


Walt

swamptooth


oh... here's an idea... was the midi clip part of a loop before??? if so, select the range you want to keep, right-click and select bounce to clips. might be legacy junk at the beginning of it...

Alas, that's not it.  There are no extra clips to be merged.  I suspect you're right and it's just Reaktor being finicky and not playing nice in the vsti playground.  Oh well.


Thanks,

Walt

swamptooth


oh... here's an idea... was the midi clip part of a loop before??? if so, select the range you want to keep, right-click and select bounce to clips. might be legacy junk at the beginning of it...

Alas, that's not it.  There are no extra clips to be merged.  I suspect you're right and it's just Reaktor being finicky and not playing nice in the vsti playground.  Oh well.


Thanks,

Walt