Notice I said 'Might be'... With Roland in some sense behind Cakewalk, IF they had SOMEONE to regain the Vision and direction that has been lost, and followed that vision through, with a re-evaluation/overhauling of their customer support (these people need some business training in human relations and customer support), perhaps better Cake bakers, coupled with the amazing forum here, I don't think it's far fetched to envision a future where Sonar was More of an industry standard. Roland has the marketing power. -BTW- The hosts that don't support VST3 usually support AU which if I understand correctly supports the sidechaing that VST3 does as well. As far as switching from Sonar, I'm demoing a couple of others right now with great results. I have more than 10 years worth of Sonar projects and it's like divorce, you don't really want to have to spiltt your stuff up, find another mate with all the features you have, plus the new ones you need, hope new unexpected issues Don't come up, end up out a lot of money. This is my living to provide for me and my family. They don't have to fix things they broke, or add VST3 or Not hang up on me, or support the products they put out, or even Reply to my posts, and I don't have to continue to support their products (which in turn supports them and their families).

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

As Bitflipper says SONAR has done sidechaining since version 7 and the work was done before VST3 was even on the horizon. SONARs implementation does something neat - like allowing multiple sources to feed the same sidechain input on a plugin. It automatically internally makes a summing bus so the user doesn't need to manage an extra bus in the project. 

We even have a knowledgebase article which was published over 5 years go to guide any vendors that wanted to support sidechaining in VST 2.4. There is just so much FUD on this topic its unbelievable.

http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/article.aspx?aid=102

And another describing sidechaining use in SONAR.

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013049

Numerous plugin vendors have already done so. To clarify, the technique described in that paper at paper is The way SONAR does sidechaining is all through standard VST 2.4 there is nothing in there that is proprietary to Cakewalk. I in fact learned how to do this through plugin vendors who already supported it.

Now I cannot speak for Waves - they have schedules and decisions to make just as we do, so my assumption is that they chose to only do sidechaining support in VST3 to save on development resources and implement only one solution. I forwarded the same article to their developers a couple of years ago so its not that they are unaware of the VST 2.4 method to do so - its a choice they made.

Noel - this does NOT answer my question as to how to use the C6 sidechaining inside Sonar. As Blogman noted, the purpose of a host is to... 'HOST' apps, not filter what you can use. To some extent I understand what you're saying, then again it helps with nothing if I still can't use C6 sidechaining.
 
Jesus guys, just bite the bullet and do the VST3. You might be absolutely right to say that 2.4 can do all that 3 can, but honestly how is that any help to me now? It's like the Betamax vs VHS war... Although Betamax was MUCH better, VHS won so you either had to put your movie on VHS or not watch it at all. 
 
Throwing the 'dead cat' in the Waves 'courtyard' doesn't work either - since it's Sonar's job to host not the other way around. Somehow I can't believe that Waves chose 3 for no reason at all.. BUT EVEN if such is the case, let's get on with it. I can't stay on the sidelines and I really don't think that things will devolve... as in people will migrate back to 2.4. And Waves isn't exactly some unknown company that was started yesterday.
 
I personally don't care if you call it Vst 2.4, 3.5 or Pepe Le Peu - All I need is my plugs to work. Come on, please get on it. If this is the new format, let's go with it... It's really not useful to keep saying 3 is the same as 2.4...

+1 for Alloy 2:)

Jalcide


Just confirmed iZotope Alloy 2 sidechaining works in X2, as well.

Alloy 2 has a multi-band compressor (somewhat similar to Waves C6 but only 3 bands max) that supports per-band sidechain selection. There are two multi-band compressors in it, with 3 bands each. So, you might be able to get a full 6 bands by creative use of it.

Alloy 2 is another plugin I highly recommend. It's basically a zero-latency, low-cpu version of Ozone in a channel strip form. So, plenty of sidechaining, X2 options to be had.

ErikDeluxe


+1 for Alloy 2:)

Jalcide


Just confirmed iZotope Alloy 2 sidechaining works in X2, as well.

Alloy 2 has a multi-band compressor (somewhat similar to Waves C6 but only 3 bands max) that supports per-band sidechain selection. There are two multi-band compressors in it, with 3 bands each. So, you might be able to get a full 6 bands by creative use of it.

Alloy 2 is another plugin I highly recommend. It's basically a zero-latency, low-cpu version of Ozone in a channel strip form. So, plenty of sidechaining, X2 options to be had.

+1 for Alloy 2:) Jalcide Just confirmed iZotope Alloy 2 sidechaining works in X2, as well. Alloy 2 has a multi-band compressor (somewhat similar to Waves C6 but only 3 bands max) that supports per-band sidechain selection. There are two multi-band compressors in it, with 3 bands each. So, you might be able to get a full 6 bands by creative use of it. Alloy 2 is another plugin I highly recommend. It's basically a zero-latency, low-cpu version of Ozone in a channel strip form. So, plenty of sidechaining, X2 options to be had.

 
Unfortunately I do not have Alloy 2. I have only Waves. These workarounds that involve purchasing different soft version of things you already have (and know/love a lot) or limiting your creativity, don't seem very useful to me... not to mention practical.

Alloy 2 is very cool. What's more it can also be used fully in VST2 and VST3 hosts.  

Something for Waves to think about.

backwoods


Alloy 2 is very cool. What's more it can also be used fully in VST2 and VST3 hosts.  

Something for Waves to think about.

LOL backwoods... I just want my plug to work in Sonar - You're signing me up for educating Waves on the value of VST2.
 
SONAR is the host... IT should the one able to handle both formats. The whole point of a host is to handle as many things as possible. Othewise you'd have an audio program separate from a sequencing program, separate from a Vst2 hosting program, seprate from a Vst3 hosting program etc... At least that's how I see it.

Probably a better solution than lecturing Cakewalk about the benefits of VST3 :)

How many plug in companies require VST3 for full benefit?- not very many

How many DAWs don't support VST3- more than half.

Wouldn't it be easier to persuade the VST makers to make proper VST2 versions?

backwoods


Probably a better solution than lecturing Cakewalk about the benefits of VST3 :)

How many plug in companies require VST3 for full benefit?- not very many

How many DAWs don't support VST3- more than half.

Wouldn't it be easier to persuade the VST makers to make proper VST2 versions?

And while I'm at it, I can also persuade them to drop back to only Win XP compatibility :) Good luck convincing somebody that does 3 to drop to 2.4. Mind you I'm not debating the technical arguments - just saying....
 
Lol - well, this isn't a dealbreaker with Cakewalk... yet. I am a little annoyed at the answers that keep repeating how great 2.4 is... as if that helps me with something.
 
As for your calculation for VST3 support, I think you're taking into cosideration things that don't deal that much with VST like ProT. Even if just 35% supports 3, that's HUGE...

backwoods


Probably a better solution than lecturing Cakewalk about the benefits of VST3 :)

How many plug in companies require VST3 for full benefit?- not very many

How many DAWs don't support VST3- more than half.

Wouldn't it be easier to persuade the VST makers to make proper VST2 versions?

You really need to pause and rethink how you personally view the needs of other people... its really quite sad.. it seems that you take some delight that other members have spend serious money on VST and hardware that they cannot use to their full potential because Cakewalk has let Sonar has decide we cannot use them... its the tail wagging the dog.

Ok..here's the MAJOR issue that not being addressed...

VST 2.x can support side-chaining....however, it's an inefficient method - and
one of the reasons it hasn't been "widely" implemented or accepted.

This was one of the major reasons for the implementation of the VST 3 standard, to make
these things more efficient...AND to get DAW's ready for the next level of advancement.  
I know everyone at Cakewalk hates Stinkberg....never the less...THEY are the ones who
gave us the SEQUENCER, ASIO, VST, etc...and THEY continue to write the standard....and it's
 not going to change UNTIL SOMEONE "OUT STANDARDS" them....i.e. gets creative enough to 
take their tech to a GREATER level OR implement a NEW, BETTER, MORE EFFICIENT way ( I think that is 
Reason's goal with "rack extensions" but I don't think that's going to get the job done.)

VST 3 is NOT going away....it's advancing...and the industry is moving with it...
and Cakewalk will continue their "boycott" of it as long as they can, as an afront to Steinberg...
and continue to hold their customers hostage in the process to their "pettiness"

The MAIN reason that developers are against VST 3 is NOT because it's not better- it's because it requires a RE-WRITE of the HOST application.  (Cakewalk isn't the only one - Renoise feels the same)

N-Tracks - an $89 DAW program ($36 on Amazon) supports VST 3....and yet
a $500 Top of the Line DAW doesn't.  

Fruity Loops, voted #1 DAW in the latest MR Poll by subscribers (this year AND last year), supports VST 3 and is about half the cost of Sonar and has FREE UPGRADES FOR LIFE!  I personally, don't like the interface...but it gets the job done...and people are flocking to it.  

Studio One is GAINING GROUND and becoming a highly competitive player BECAUSE it supports VST 3!! 
(not the only reason)

Adobe Audition will support VST 3
BitWig Studio will support VST 3

Cubase, obviously, supports VST 3...and has taken the PRV to NEW HEIGHTS with
it's advanced editing capabilities, and NOW with VST Expression - all implemented
by the VST 3.x standard.  It also has GREAT scoring capabilities...

MOST of the DAW's are NOW seeing the benefits of supporting this format, and have
it in the pipeline...as the Plug people are moving there as well, and realize that, much
to everyone's dismay, there are GREAT benefits to it...

IT AIN'T CHANGIN' MARY..

Cakewalk has an agenda...it's to resist Steinberg's writing of the standards, because they
don't like Steinberg....and consequently hold their OWN CUSTOMERS hostage because of their
dislike of Steinberg...they've been doing it for YEARS!!!  It's a V for Vendetta I assume.

And the fanboi's, right, wrong, or indifferent, will always support them - as, being fanboi's,
the sense of "objectivity" has been washed away - as long as "they" are happy...nothing else
really matters...and, it seems, they don't care if you WANT IT, NEED IT, or whatever...


Eventually, as always, Cake heads will be dragged, kicking and screaming the whole time,
like a "child throwing a tantrum, because they can't get what they want", into implementing VST 3, 
as the industry continues it's move there...history repeats itself (VST)

Waves Plugins are the INDUSTRY LEADER...no question....as just about every top STUDIO or FRONT OF HOUSE Engineer uses them...and there has to be a reason for that....not going to change anytime soon...and making their NEW plugs "reliant" on VST 3 is because it's EFFICIENT.

Here are the options.....use your SONAR as is or SWITCH...only choice for now....which, when Cakewalk sees their customer base dwindling, they will have to react....


That's it...end of story ...bye bye...