Consider a simple setup of a vocal signal with a delay effect being applied to it. I want to use sidechain compression to lower the delay volume when the lead vocal is playing. This way, I can have the delay ring out when the singer stops but lower when the singer sings again.

The problem is, I cannot find a way to apply the compression to JUST the delay signal without ALSO applying it to the dry signal. I don't know how to separate the dry and wet to achieve this. Even if I create a send on the vocal track to the effects bus containing the delay, it sends the dry signal with it so the compressor placed after the delay effect compresses both.

Thanks in advance.

Not sure I'm following quite correctly but wouldn't this achieve what you want?

Set up a delay 100% wet on a buss.
On the delay buss insert a compressor with a side chain facility on it and set up the compressor to duck the delay
On the vocal track insert a send to the sidechain of the compressor on the delay buss (leave the track output to it's original output buss be that vocal, master, etc)
Finally on the vocal track insert a send directly to the buss.
 
The tricky bit will be setting up the release on the compressor I'd have thought.
 
EDITED:... for clarity.

FastBikerBoy


Not sure I'm following quite correctly but wouldn't this achieve what you want?

Set up a delay 100% wet on a buss, send the lead vocal to it.
Set up a side chain compressor on the delay buss with required compression to duck the delay
Insert a send to the sidechain of the compressor on the delay buss

The tricky bit will be setting up the release on the compressor I'd have thought.

Yes that could work. But what if the delay effect does not have a a wet/dry option? What if the effect I want to use is not delay, but some other effect, which does not have a wet/dry option?

I can't think of any delay that doesn't have some sort of mix switch or ability to separate the two in some way. Or any other effect without one for that matter so it shouldn't be an issue.

Having said that if you ever found one with no control that was split in some arbitrary way say 50/50 wet/dry the simple answer is you can't separate them.

Other than that the easy way to split wet/dry is use a buss. Everything on the buss needs to be 100% wet, set up a send on the (dry) track and control the amount of delay/reverb/other effect using the send level.

I rarely use effects on a track, I prefer the flexibility of a buss. Even using BREVERB in the PC I use busses with various reverbs set up and send tracks to them.

The only thing I usually use on tracks are processors such as EQ and Compressors for effects (delay/chorus/reverb/etc) I use busses.

The wet and dry signal is then summed at another buss usually the master.

Awesome question!!!

I've always wondered about this..  You know, "Taylor Dane is singing along, and all of a sudden when she finishes the line, a big huge reverb comes out of nowhere."

I've always thought this was done via, "manual automation of the faders on the desk, via a human hand."  But its quite possible that this is done with ducking!!  It probably is..  lol..   

  Meanwhile, I do not think a compressor is the tool you want here..  I think you are actually looking for a gate..  When the vocal stops, the gate on the reverb/delay or whatever, than opens..   How to set this up..  I've got no clue!!  But I can't wait to read the answer..   

I'm just marking my spot, to subscribe to the thread and read it quite possibly when more folk arrive...  to give their insight

A gate could be set up in the same way by using the side chain.

Having said that I don't think I'd do either apart from in a live situation. In the studio I'd just use an envelope on the delay buss send level and control the level of delay as required.

Ok I'm sorry, I was being unclear on what I mentioned earlier about no dry/wet option on the effect. All effects DO have a way to balance between the dry signal and wet signal, but most only allow you to change the wet level. In other words, most effects have a "wet level" knob, but not all effects have both a "wet level" knob AND a "dry level" knob. The particular delay effect I'm using only has wet level control, so there is no way to lower the dry signal to zero within the effect. So as long as I am compressing after this delay, I will always be compressing the dry signal with it.

About the alternative method you talked about, you said "Everything on the buss needs to be 100% wet." If this means lowering the "dry level" knob within each of the plugins in the bus, I can't do it with the plugin I am using.


I hope all this makes sense... I am still convinced there is a way to do it, and I'm just missing something.

Well..  If you are going to sidechain you need at least two audio sources..   For example, a kick side-chaining the bass...  You are not going to side-chain the delay on a vocal if:  The vocal is on track 1, the delay is in the bin of track 1.

You need something like..  Vocal on Track 1.  Delay set to 100% wet on a bus..  but you wont get side-chaining with a compressor unless you've got another audio source from somewhere..  so..   you are probably looking for a way to do this with a gate..  I've got no idea how to set it up..

If it has a wet knob then surely 100% wet = 0% dry? Does on every effect I've ever used anyway. What effect is it?

You see because..  If the delay is on Bus C for example, and you have the vocal on track 1..   that you definitely have vocals and delay separate...  but that will not do anything if you send the vocal to the compressors input..   because you lack another audio source this way...