FastBikerBoy


If it has a wet knob then surely 100% wet = 0% dry? Does on every effect I've ever used anyway. What effect is it?

Most effects I use have a single knob or slider labeled "delay level." If this level is put to zero, all you hear is 100% dry. There is no way to make it 100% wet using effects like these. In this situation, I am using the delay from the z3ta+ effect plugin.


If you've got a moment, take a look at this video where this guy explains pre/post faders within Pro Tools. When he changes the snare->reverb from "post" to "pre", he is able to lower the fader on the dry snare while leaving the volume of the reverb unchanged. Do you think he just has the reverb effect set to 100% wet within the plugin?

I see no reason why the vocal track can't be used into the sidechain of a gate/compressor on the delay buss.

You can insert as many buss sends as you want on a track/buss. I still don't think that's the best way to do what the OP is trying to achieve though. Envelope on the delay buss send level is the way I'd go.

huh?  If you kick the delay mix fade up to 100% on the Z3ta + fx, you are getting a 100% wet...

Most effects I use have a single knob or slider labeled "delay level." If this level is put to zero, all you hear is 100% dry. There is no way to make it 100% wet using effects like these. In this situation, I am using the delay from the z3ta+ effect plugin.
 

At 100% wet it should be delay only. If it isn't then the answer to your question is you can't. Either use a different delay (the sonitus for example) or a send envelope on the delay.

FastBikerBoy


I see no reason why the vocal track can't be used into the sidechain of a gate/compressor on the delay buss.

You can insert as many buss sends as you want on a track/buss. I still don't think that's the best way to do what the OP is trying to achieve though. Envelope on the delay buss send level is the way I'd go.

Because if you use a plugin that does not allow 100% wet (like my case), then the delay buss does not play just the delay signal. It plays the dry signal as well--and you do not want to compress the dry signal, only the delay.

This is the reason I would not use envelopes: I am trying to achieve this sidechain effect in order to prevent the wet signal from drowning out the main vocal signal while still maintaining loud delay effect tails. So basically, every time the singer sings in the song, the wet delay is lowered a little bit so that it does not overpower the main vocals. Does this make sense?

FastBikerBoy


At 100% wet it should be delay only. If it isn't then the answer to your question is you can't. Either use a different delay (the sonitus for example) or a send envelope on the delay. 

But the thing is, I can't set it to 100% wet. The dry signal is fixed, and I can only raise/lower the delay volume. I can't change the dry volume.

vaultwit


So as long as I am compressing after this delay, I will always be compressing the dry signal with it.

With sidechaining you are not exactly compressing. The send to the sidechain input is using the gain reduction element to duck whatever source is on the input/output on the compressor while the sidechain send signal level is above the threshold.

wmb

vaultwit


So as long as I am compressing after this delay, I will always be compressing the dry signal with it.

With sidechaining you are not exactly compressing. The send to the sidechain input is using the gain reduction element to duck whatever source is on the input/output on the compressor while the sidechain send signal level is above the threshold.

Yes I understand that, but since the delay plugin I'm using does not allow me to set 100% wet, the signal that I am compressing contains the dry signal in it as well as the wet signal. I only want to compress the wet signal. Hope that makes sense

vaultwit

FastBikerBoy


I see no reason why the vocal track can't be used into the sidechain of a gate/compressor on the delay buss.

You can insert as many buss sends as you want on a track/buss. I still don't think that's the best way to do what the OP is trying to achieve though. Envelope on the delay buss send level is the way I'd go.

Because if you use a plugin that does not allow 100% wet (like my case), then the delay buss does not play just the delay signal. It plays the dry signal as well--and you do not want to compress the dry signal, only the delay.

This is the reason I would not use envelopes: I am trying to achieve this sidechain effect in order to prevent the wet signal from drowning out the main vocal signal while still maintaining loud delay effect tails. So basically, every time the singer sings in the song, the wet delay is lowered a little bit so that it does not overpower the main vocals. Does this make sense?

FastBikerBoy


At 100% wet it should be delay only. If it isn't then the answer to your question is you can't. Either use a different delay (the sonitus for example) or a send envelope on the delay. 

But the thing is, I can't set it to 100% wet. The dry signal is fixed, and I can only raise/lower the delay volume. I can't change the dry volume.

If you can't get 100% wet then the simple answer is you can't. Why not use a different delay if that's the case? The sonitus delay is excellent IMHO. 
 
An envelope will achieve exactly what you want though. The only difference is you'll have to draw/record it rather than the desired effect happening in real time.

FastBikerBoy

vaultwit

FastBikerBoy


I see no reason why the vocal track can't be used into the sidechain of a gate/compressor on the delay buss.

You can insert as many buss sends as you want on a track/buss. I still don't think that's the best way to do what the OP is trying to achieve though. Envelope on the delay buss send level is the way I'd go.

Because if you use a plugin that does not allow 100% wet (like my case), then the delay buss does not play just the delay signal. It plays the dry signal as well--and you do not want to compress the dry signal, only the delay.

This is the reason I would not use envelopes: I am trying to achieve this sidechain effect in order to prevent the wet signal from drowning out the main vocal signal while still maintaining loud delay effect tails. So basically, every time the singer sings in the song, the wet delay is lowered a little bit so that it does not overpower the main vocals. Does this make sense?

FastBikerBoy


At 100% wet it should be delay only. If it isn't then the answer to your question is you can't. Either use a different delay (the sonitus for example) or a send envelope on the delay. 

But the thing is, I can't set it to 100% wet. The dry signal is fixed, and I can only raise/lower the delay volume. I can't change the dry volume.

If you can't get 100% wet then the simple answer is you can't. Why not use a different delay if that's the case? The sonitus delay is excellent IMHO. 
 
An envelope will achieve exactly what you want though. The only difference is you'll have to draw/record it rather than the desired effect happening in real time.

You're right, I'll just have to use a different effect. I don't like the sonitus delay because I use ping delay a lot, and I don't think you can with sonitus. And yes I know the envelope method will work, but it's just not practical to manually lower the volume each and every time the singer says a word. That would be the same thing as automating the volume of a vocal track manually using an envelope instead of using a vocal compressor. Thanks for your help though, at least I know what direction to head now.

EDIT: Also, sonitus delay does not allow more than 1 delay simultaneously. I forgot to mention that the main reason I like the z3ta+ delay is because you can have up to 3 delays at a time. Is there even any delay in SONAR that can do that besides z3ta+??

it's just not practical to manually lower the volume each and every time the singer says a word. That would be the same thing as automating the volume of a vocal track manually using an envelope instead of using a vocal compressor.

Well, I do both on every single vocal track I've ever recorded.

Volume automation for "coarse" leveling, Compression for "fine" leveling

I'm pretty sure this is common practice across the industry.

Ity might be time consuming but it's the one guaranteed way to get your vocals sitting nicely in the mix.